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11-87 timing

ltdann

Well-known member
It's a 11-87 premier w/cantilever slug barrel. Has about 200 rounds thru it, total. After firing the first shell, the bolt locks back and the second shell is laying in the
carrier (which is down). After pressing the carrier release, the second shell will load and fire and the bolt locks back again but the third stays in the magazine.

Things I've done:

1) tried switching brands of slugs, both 2 3/4" and 3". No Joy

2) completely disassembled firearm, including stock and action spring. Removed the magazine spring and trigger group.

3) Cleaned EVERYTHING (including gas ports) and sprayed with silicone. No Joy.

4) Ordered piston seal, o-ring and magazine spring. Arrive next week

5) Called Remington. Less than helpful but did say it's a timing problem.

I'd rather not replace the trigger group ($120) unless I have too but I don't know what to look for to diagnose a timing problem.

And NO, I'm not ditching the gun and getting a Bennelli.
 

inchr48

Moderator
Moderator
Is your magazine follower plastic or steel? I've heard of plastic ones wearing enough to stick out of the magazine tube too far and interfere with the carrier.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
It's plastic, but I'll check that. I'm wondering If I've got a weak magazine spring that's not ejecting the shell hard enough to trip the carrier release......that would explain both problems. I need to take the trigger group out again and really go thru it, piece by piece and bounce it against the schematics. It's gotta be some $3 dollar part.

The magazine spring was $4.60...but the shipping was $15.75. Jeez!
 

JustGuy

Banned
Looks like some dirt in the magazine tube, try to disassemble, clean and put some oil. I doubt something can go wrong with the spring in 200 rounds.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
I did that during the disassemble, didn't appear to especially dirty. Although it's only got around 200 slugs through it, it is 10-12 years old.
 

JustGuy

Banned
From what you explain it looks like the shell comes slow from the tube, it must be some destruction. Usually spring has more than enough to push it off if there is no obstruction. Try to push the shell inside and see how easy it comes out. It should slide just of. Fill if there is some resistance. Also, plastic followers (if this one has plastic) might deform with time which prevent it from sliding freely in the tube.

There might be other reasons, but unfortunately, without seeing the gun it is difficult to assess.
My m500 ones started having similar problem, appeared to be a burr on the lock mechanism, i do not know the part name. Just cleaned the burr and it solved the issue.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
I went through the trigger group again and it seemed the carrier latch was super stiff. I played with it awhile and noticed a sliver of metal in the hole the carrier latch follower is in, along with a little grit. I sprayed the whole area with carb and choke cleaner and blasted the little nooks and crannies while the carrier was raised.

After I sprayed some silicon in there, I worked the whole mechanism and it's much more free. Now the carrier latch pops easily and the whole carrier assembly functions more smoothly. The new magazine spring will arrive in a few days and after I replace that I'll run it out to the range next Saturday and see. I'd hate to think that's all it was, and I really had to look for it since that part of the mechanism can only be seen with the carrier raised.

Nothing else looked dirty, worn, burred or broken and the carrier latch certainly is an important part of the timing. The shell from the magazine has to hit that and cause the bolt to release and feed the next shell. I believe the third shell sticking in the magazine is all about the mag spring being weak and/or grit in the mag tube.

We'll see.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
So I went to the range and it appears the timing is back in order after focusing deep cleaning around the carrier latch and new gas piston and o-ring. The third shell stuck is fixed as well following a new mag spring.

Now, I have a sticking bolt. After firing, the second or third shell will only partially load and requires a gentle tap on the bolt handle to complete the action.

I give up, it's off to the gunsmith for a tune up.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
The gunsmith is stumped. I spent an hour with him going through the shotgun. He even test fired to confirm that there was something unusual sticking.

He said that in 45 years, he's never seen an 1100/11-87 action stick like that. At least not one that couldn't be fixed in 5 minutes.

After an hour, we narrowed it down to he hammer binding on the inside of the link. He'll have to dismantle the trigger group and that'll require ordering a new hammer swage pin.

It certainly got his interest since it's outside of his usual work of new sights and dirty guns.
 

rosss1897

Well-known member
when you have the trigger group removed check the fork that goes in the return spring ,open and close the action and besure its working smooth,also a cracked fore end hanger will slow the action
 

ltdann

Well-known member
That's where we suspect the problem is. Although the link and hammer are in good shape, it appears that when the trigger group is installed, the hammer is binding inside the fork of the link. There's no obvious reason that it should be doing that. The hammer and the link are both spring steel and don't show any defects, cracks or abnormal wear.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
The gunsmith dismantled the trigger group and reassembled it and found nothing obviously wrong. I watched as he test fired it and it worked better but it still had problems at least once in each 3-shot string. Since he didn't really find anything or replace/fix anything, he didn't charge me. So I knew it was still probably a timing problem and since we really eliminated the trigger group as a problem, that left the springs.

I ordered both a magazine spring and action spring from Remington. When they arrived I notice something interesting. The new action spring was a full inch longer than the old and the new magazine spring a full 6 inches longer!

I went to the range yesterday and shot several boxes and the shotgun performed flawlessly.

So what I think was going on is this..,.. the magazine spring was weak and when releasing a shell, there wasn't enough force to trip the carrier release and the firearm acted as if it was empty. That would explain why the third shell wouldn't exit the magazine.

When hitting the carrier release button, the action spring wasn't strong enough to always close the bolt and that's why it sometimes bound up.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. Regardless, it's fixed.

P.S. Did you know that Timney makes an adjustable trigger kit for the Remington 870/1100/11-87? I just ordered one. Comes with a new adjustable sear and 3 springs.. 2, 3 and 4 pounds.
 
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ltdann

Well-known member
Thanks!

$20 for new springs and it's like have a new shotgun all over.

I'm curious to see how the trigger kit improves the pull.
 


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