12GA From Hell

hubel458

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I am a visitor here relating info about our wildcat
12GA FH, that I mentioned on biggest bore thread
project 3 of us over on AR developed. We built a long,
super strong 12ga Paradox style cartridge, by putting 12ga
size rims on bmg cases. We put cartridge in a bolt and couple
of falling block actions. 1st picture shows our case next to
regular 12ga case, which can also be fired in our chambers.
2nd picture shows my Savage 210 that I built it on with a
heavy stock and barrel. Ed Hubel





 

spectr17

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What happens when you light that candle?

Welcome by the way also.
 

FredtheGad

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I don,t care what you say thats gotta hurt when you pop the cork.


Welcome aboard, would like to hear more about your mini howitzer.


Fred
 

hubel458

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Jesse, Fred--Thanks for the welcome.It weighs 25 lbs,
so it don't kick real bad. Has a real thich recoil
pad, 31 inch barrel. Kicks about the same as a
10 lb 458 Lott. Ed.
 

hubel458

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Shot a 610 grain hollowpoint Dixie hard
slug into 6 gallon sealed pail of water.
Going 2800 fps, and real big hollowpoint.
First pic is pail with crimped on top.
Pail full and has filler spout capped.
Second pic,impact with water atomising,
and pail blowing apart.In the next small
fraction of a second is third after impact
with shelf cleared, the hyrostatic pressure
down, has bent top of steel frame shelf.
Same blast put jug pieces all over.
Got to get a 15 gallon one. Behind
you see my wood bundle backstop...Ed





 

Orygun

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Cool!

Can I get one?? Only I need some those tall shells with a few ounces of Dead Coyote so I can shoot some teal on the public refuges in the Central Valley.
 

hubel458

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I picked up a 12ga NEF Ultra Slug gun.
With 24 inch shorty barrel.
Added weight and thumbhole stock.
Gun weighted to 15 lbs so
far. I got 600gr hard slug to
1650-1700 so far, and shoots easy.
Got 1 1/2 inch thick pad.Working up different
loads.Should get over 2000.
Cases eject easy,no resizing needed
on bottom half of case,action opens easy,
no evidence of binding.Started case 3.2 inch,
settled on case length of 3.15-- Chamber being
full size max 12ga size expands top half of case
more than my minimum chamber in Savage does,
so little more effort needed to size.Our case, though many times stronger than regular
12ga cases is thinner at mouth, so that is
why I used tight chamber on Savage.Still
can't get used to mickey mouse short barrel.
Anyone know of a genius who could
make long alloy barrel with pivot mounted?
Cases can be 3 inches on up to
our length, and work.Ed

 

hubel458

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We are getting a big ole replica 1887 12ga levergun
to test our cases on. Modern steel. Should be fun.Ed
 

gmarti4006

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Awesome. Should work on any dinosaur you might run into in the woods.
 

Taos

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Hubel,

How do you ADD a rim to a case? Are these rifled barrels or smooth? What kind of accuracy? I think I need one!
 

hubel458

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Taos- The Savage is rifled and has full length chamber
for 3.870 inch case.The NEF is rifled and 3 inch chamber
so we cut test cases back. Just got a replica 1887 levergun
of modern forged steel with smooth barrel and 2 3/4
inch chamber to test for guys needing info.
To put rims on bmg cases we turned off original rim
down to bottom of extractor groove and threaded the stub left
5/8 x 24 and the screwed on a premade rin piece.
In picture you see case threaded and the rims pieces
that screw on. We set them with loctite.Rim pieces
have a taper to mak a perfect fit against the forward slant
of the extractor groove.The integrity of strong
base and corner isn't affect so cases can be loaded to
any pressure any gun could take. Ed

 

Taos

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Mr Hubel.

Thanks for the reply. That is a very interesting rifle and round you have there. but it sounds like it is way out of my league for price. It sure would be fun to play with though, where can I find out more about it?
 

hubel458

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Taos-I did my own work(not licensed to work on others) on
gun and have 600 bucks in it. Other fellow with much
more expensive action, wood, etc has $3500. My Savage 210 was only
400 bucks, heavy barrel 50(a second), stock 25, dies 80, etc.
We have 8 month long thread about it on Accurate Reloading forum in
big bore section.Ed.
 

hubel458

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Got the NEF chambered for long 3.85" case. And it
has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
work up if pressures allow.Ed.
 

hubel458

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Found an O/U that would handle the IMR 4759 3"
loads.That we developed giving 1800
fps in 3" case. It is the Zoli Z-Sport. Expensive,
all alloy steel construction, tested to
about 100k. That's not a missprint.Their
site shows testing at the Italian proof house
of 8000 bar.That's 7-8 times regular shotgun
working loads.Pic of action below. It handling that extreme pressure, means that other quality
O/U like Ruger would handle 4759 loads.Ed

 

hubel458

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Hot damnn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed
 

hubel458

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Buckhammer 3 "factory loads are 15k psi.
A 2.75 inch case with 80 gr of 4759, a thin card wad,
a 3/8 cushion lubed felt wad, when crimped is about
2.4 inches long, with 600gr Dixie slug. Based on
pressures recorded in previous post for 3 inch case
and 90gr of 4759, they will run about 13,400 psi,
and work through modern guns.Another load tested with
same bullet, 65gr of 4759, tested at same place
was 11,800 psi and 1640 fps. So you don't have
to put in my max loads, but go down a
little and use in modern guns that
are lighter than NEF so they don't kick so bad.But yet
you can get fairly good energy levels for big game, 3300
to 4000 ft lbs of energy.Ed
 

hubel458

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We are working on scaling up falling block action
to handle our 12GA FH, and similiar cartridges.
Here is picture of top part of the
first scale-up model, next to smaller
Wickliffe. The Wickcliffe has a nice
style that we like. There is 12GA FH
round on the scaled up action feed
trough. Model is aluminum for easy machining.
It will handle 12GA FH, 700HE, 700NE, 600NE,
etc. Bottom of block is flat to set on
mill table to do the machining.Next machining
will be the hole and slot down through the
action for breech block and hammer to
slide up and down in.Its taken awhile to
get some tooling.I had none when we set up
vertical mill, and have to get more.The
action model also will be narrowed up when
finished, and contoured to look as good
as the Wickcliffe.Ed.

 


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