20ga Hits the same as 12ga = Myth?

[eoats]

"20 gauge Hits as Hard as a 12gauge, just fewer pellets".

I first heard it from one of the instructors at my CA Hunter's Safety Course last fall & today again from someone showing off Weatherby's 28ga.
It almost sounded like it could be, but looking at some random 2.75" ammo listings shows things like; muzzle velocities = 1450 ft/sec for 12ga & 1350 for 20ga.
Anyone care to Bust this Myth down for me?
Are the random samples I looked up just Federal or whoever going 'Light' on the 20ga?

My knowledge of ballistics would make a 410 shell seem half empty (or half full depending on your philosophic leanings).

 

[myfriendis410]

The simple fact of the matter is that more pellets mean longer killing range or broader killing pattern. For upland birds the 20 gauge is probably more than enough. Waterfowl hunting is primarily a 12 gauge deal for this simple reason.

Now if they mean recoil, there is some truth to the fact the 20 gauge, IN A TARGET LOAD, compared to a 12 gauge target load, has similar recoil. The 20 gauge shell has a very high pressure for velocity compared to the 12 gauge which can contribute to felt recoil. Obviously a heavy trap load in a 12 gauge is gonna kick more than a light skeet load in a 20 gauge simply because the ejecta from the 12 gauge is 30% greater and at a higher velocity.

 

[Common Sense]

I own a few of each, but when hunting I prefer a 20 gauge. I do much better with it than a twelve. I don't do nearly as good with a .410. (I have never bought a duck stamp)

 

[solus]

Its hard to compare the two. Simply because of the difference in the amount of powder being used, wads, and the amount of shot being used. I rload 12gauge and you can load at different velocities. You can make a 12 gauge light and a 20 gauge match velocity by changing wads or simply adding more powder. FYI if you do decide to reload shotgun follow all published load data its not like metallic reloading.

 

[cali-carnivore]

Imo, I believe the gun makes more difference than if it is 12 or 20 gauge. My first gun was a h and r single shot 20. It had a lot more kick than my next gun a Mossberg 12 pump. I now use a Browning gold and has little kick with a 2.75 shell and is manageable with 3.5 mags. I know loads make a difference but to me its about the gun.

 

[eoats]

Thanks for the replies. Learning so much from you guys, thanks.

To be more specific:
Is the force of a single pellet from any standard load be it 12, 20 or 28 - would this be the same?

Granted a bigger bore has more pellets & more recoil with more powder burned.
From my looking online it seems that the 20ga velocity is always lower than the 12ga.

Here's one variation at 4:04;
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=l3ff...top_uri=/watch?v=l3ffvXTL-gw&feature=youtu.be

 

[solus]

well if you have the same velocity the force would be the same if the pellet is the same weight... simple physics really. Now if you mean the same amount of powder in a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge then the 20 gauge would have more force because it would produce higher pressure and velocity.

 

[eoats]

Thanks souls,

I guess I'm over thinking there is some ratio to the amount of powder to shot.
So if a 410, 2 3/4" shell say just for example there was 1" of powder pushing out 1" of shot.
Now that same 1" of powder, pushing 1" of shot, but with a diameter of a 12ga - pellets traveling the same?
Theory.

Practical- by my highly anecdotal browsing random data, no 20 gauge travels with equal speed out of the barrel as a 12ga.
Myth Busted in my current thinking.

 

[solus]

lol well not quite sure the answer to that one seeing how they go off weights and thats more than I would know in my limited experience

 

[myfriendis410]

You can obtain similar velocities across the board in different shotgun gauges. In other words the 20 gauge can shove pellets out the muzzle just as fast as a 12 gauge. Just less of them.

 

[eoats]

I'll conlude with agreeing that it is POSSIBLE to have the same velocity.

Yet NO listings of 20ga shells I can find in fact list the same velocity for their 12ga & 20 ga shells.

 

[coff20]

I agree that it's possible to have the same velocity. Either way, the difference in velocity listed on the 12 and 20 gauge shells you can buy, really is a non factor at the range of most(if not all) shots you take while upland bird hunting or shooting trap.

@myfriendis410, when you say, "The simple fact of the matter is that more pellets mean longer killing range or broader killing pattern" do you mean in general or just the difference between a 12 and 20 gauge? I was under the impression that's only true to a certain extent, and if you have to much shot you ruin the pattern. In addition, only so much shot can come out of the barrel at once so the pattern is only going to broaden so much and you can end up with your pellets kind of stacked even as they fly through the air.

 

[myfriendis410]

Keep in mind there are a tremendous amount of different components used in shotshells. Not only different sizes but compositions and the wads used to propel them down the barrel. Added to that the fact there are a gazillion different shotguns out there to shoot these varied cartridges and you see almost anything can happen.

Most experts talk about a minimum ft/lbs. of energy delivered to a particular game animal to cleanly kill it while producing a pattern in the shot string that has no holes large enough for the bird to fly through. Let's just say a duck needs 5 ft/lbs. of energy. Two shells; one a 12 gauge 1 1/4 oz. #2 steel and the other a 20 gauge 1 oz. #2 steel at same velocity. The 12 gauge shell has 25% more pellets and pellet energy than the 20 gauge. Assuming similar patterns (not unreasonable), you can then extend the killing range due to the increased number of pellets in the payload.

You conjecture that too many pellets contribute to bad patterns. If that were so you would not see the turkey loads we do now. They pack those babies incredibly full of shot. Patterns are extremely dense at long range simply because they are trying to get multiple pellet hits on the head area of a turkey.

The other thing you have to remember too is that a shot string isn't a big ball of shot. It develops into a cone shaped string with the point of the cone in the center of the pattern leading the way. Deformed shot moves to the outside and slows more quickly causing this cone to form. Choke constrictions help to restrict this but do not completely eliminate it.

 

[coff20]

@myfriendis410, yeah I agree with you that a 12 with more shot is going to be more effective than a 20 at a longer range. I was more wondering about a 12 gauge 3" shell with 2 oz.(or more) of shot vs. a 12 gauge 2 3/4 shell with 1 oz. of shot. I guess I was thinking more for upland hunting with #8 or #7 1/2. Most of what I read suggests that if you pack them too full you need too much powder and you end up with more deformed pellets and a messed up pattern. What you said about turkey loads makes sense, but don't you usually use #4 or #5 shot in turkey loads(I'm not too familiar with turkey loads)? I would imagine larger shot would be able to handle more powder more effectively and in turn be more effective at a longer range.

 

[myfriendis410]

You're worrying about nothing. If you're upland bird hunting a 1 oz 12 gauge load at 1,300 fps or a 7/8 oz 20 gauge at the same velocity is all you need. You will NEVER want to shoot a big honkin' heavy payload shell. As to the size of the shot; maybe so and maybe no to deformation.

 

[coff20]

Hahaha no I know that don't worry. I wouldn't ever dream of shooting anything bigger than an ounce of 7 1/2 or 8 or at most an ounce and a quarter of 6's while upland hunting. I was just interested to hear you opinion on loads and their potential effectiveness(or ineffectiveness). I just like shotguns and I like reading and learning about owning and shooting them.

 

[Hikingwithguns]

Worry more about shooting ability.