Angled shots

[Dingo Jack]

To correct, for example, the 45 degree angle shot, because the loss of gravity in angled shots causes the bullet to hit high. This is true at angled up and down shots. True? How much compensation, generally speaking do you make if you are making a 300 yd shot? A 200 yd shot?
My rifle is 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel and I shoot Federal 180 gr BarnesX.
Would it be something like: Aim for 200 yds when 300 yds away? I am a flat lander and I will be hunting Elk in the mountains. I have no way to practice this shot but I do have a Kahles TDS Reticle System scope that is super in long range shooting. Thanks in advance.

 

[jackrabbit]

Wow! 45 degree angle!  Pretty severe if you figure you are already going to be at about the same elevation of the game, at closer ranges anyway.  If you have that kind of agle at 300 yards, then I guess you'll be in the very steepest, goat like country.  So I would suggest posting your question also in the sheep, rifle, and handloading sections of this board.  In all my years hunting Western slopes, I just take into consideration that I am sighted in at between 1-2 inches at 200 yards on my high power rifles, and then I just negate the 2 inches at very high and low angles.  I have never had to aim higher than a few inches below the back or above the brisket.  It always feels weirder though on a downward shot, than an upward shot.  Psychologically, it feels like the uphill shot will be effected by gravity slowing the bullet, and on a downhill shot gravity speeding the bullet.  My experience though, at 200 yards has been that upward or downward does not make any significant difference, other then the fact that gravity does not have a perpendicular (90 degree) effect on the flight path.  So I compensate the same for both upward and downward shots.  Well, gotta stop this post now, trying to correct my typos just results in replacing other letters in the post -- guess I gotta figure out how to use the tool bar on this site now!

 

[sagebrush]

DJ

You are not alone in the gnashing of teeth over angled shots in the high country. But the reality of the situation is not as bad as it may seem. The theoretical "problem" of the angled shot is the variance of the distance through the air from the shooter to the target versus the linear distance parallel to the "flat" surface of the earth. If you remember your high school geometry, the length of a hypotenuse (your angled shot) is longer than the base (the linear distance) of a triangle. Since gravity always effects the trajectory of a bullet over the linear distance, bullet drop is less on an uphill or downhill shot. So, in theory, you should always aim a little low on a angled shot to compensate for the diminished effect of gravity on the bullet.

My practical experience says hogwash to all the theory, and all the worry. You have a great flat shooting rig to take up after the elk. Just sight in your rifle for the maximum point blank range and hold right on the money at anything within that range. I looked up the ballistic data for the PMC 180gr Barnes-X and plugged it into PointBlank software for you and came up with the following results. You should verify this result with actual range time because every rifle is a little different and I may not know all the variables in your circumstance. Your maximum point blank range is 333 yards with that load and an 8 inch kill zone. You should sight in 4 inches high at 150 yds and that will put you 4 inches low at 333 yards. As long as your 6X6 bull is within 333 yards, hold right behind his shoulder and let fly. As long as you do your part, you'll have a good hit whether uphill, downhill, or even on the same elevation! If you're farther away than 333 yards, get closer. You owe that much to your elk.

The short answer, sight in 4 inches high at 150 yards. Hold right on out to 300 yards. Get to the range and practice. A three shot clover leaf at 100 yards off the bench is not the same as a 300 yard shot after spotting a trophy elk, stalking for an hour, climbing up the side of a straight up mountain and kneeling behind a rock on a ridge at 6,000 feet. The last thing you need to worry about in that situation is the angle of the shot.

Just a few words of advice on your hunt. Get yourself physically prepared. Spend a lot of time at the range shooting from hunting positions. Success at hunting elk is accomplished by controlling that which you can control and overcoming that which you can't. If you are fortunate enough to see an animal you want to take, move slowly and deliberately. Plan your stalk completely before you start. Watch the wind and your surroundings constantly. You'll be surprised that the bull you are after will rarely bust you because you are so focused on him that you won't notice the cows that do bust you. When you get within range, concentrate on good shooting form like you did on the range and try to put what is actually happening out of your mind. It's the only way I can get the adrenalin under control. And believe me, there will be maximum adrenalin when you see four feet of antlers and the scope fills up with brown.

Good luck, enjoy your hunt, and most of all remember it's the hunt, not the result that counts.

 

[Speckmisser]

Great post, Sage!  

I can't come anywhere near that one for eloquence and info, but here's my take.  

I'm a firm believer that, if you're within reasonable range for your weapon, spending too much time trying to calculate for angle and such means you're thinking too hard.  I don't know about you guys, but when I start thinking too hard about a shot, I generally miss.  Remember that when you have game in the scope, you're generally not shooting for minute of angle.  You're shooting for pie plate...  8 inches or better (OK, you could reduce that a little if the target is angled wierdly).  If you and your weapon are matched to the conditions, a shade of drift isn't going to matter.

Probably much more important than estimating the angle is estimating the range.  That seems to be most hunters' biggest failing, and the cause of most missed long distance (over 250yds) shots.  

Anyway, confidence is your biggest ally, and confidence comes from practice.  Shoot the gun until you have no doubt that it will hit where you aim it.  Then, when you see your elk, just aim the gun and shoot it.  If you have to think more than that, you're already getting behind the 8-ball.  

 

[Dingo Jack]

Thanks for the replys.
I know that 45° is improbable but 20° or 30° can be realistic. I have a Leica LRF 800 and I will know the distance if it is far. I am not sure how FAR I would actually try to shoot at game. 265 yds is the longest shot/kill I have taken here over the years on South Texas deer and that was last year. That was just the longest reasonable shot I have had offered. Hopefully I will not ever have the need to worry about this angle stuff with a flat shooting rifle but I thought I would throw it out here.
If presented the oppertunity to shoot at a Bull Elk I will do all I can to make that shot less than 200 yds. I am practicing from different shooting positions. I have shooting sticks that work great for varmint hunting and I am practicing getting the sticks out of the pouch and deployed. Seems like the shooting sticks would be a good thing to get used to using but if I had my dreathers I would use a tree branch or a tree trunk to steady my shot. Or even my pack would work great if I were down that low to shoot.
Hey guys, less than 6 months left to Elk season. Its getting close. Hehe... I'm excited.

 

[340mag]

just to answer you question a 300 yard shot at a 30 deg angle will hit about the same hight as a 240 yard shot on level ground if your sighted in to hit dead on or 1" high on at 200 yards, in your case that would mean that the bullet would most likely not hit 4"-6" low like at 300yards on level ground but closer to about 1 inch low with that 300mag, Ive hunted in colorado for elk for the last 19 seasons and I seriously doubt that problem will come up, all the elk Ive killed were within 200yards and all but 1 was inside of 160 yards, remember once the first few shots are fired on the first day most elk tend to stay on the north and east facing slopes where the cover is heavier. Id pay way more attention to getting in good physical shape and makeing sure you can hit a 6" paper plate shooting off hand at 150-200 yards than worrying about 300yard plus shots! keep in mind 99% of successfull elk hunting involves getting a good elk in your sights and that usually requires long up and down hill walks and knowlege of where the elk are likely to bed and feed and thier likely escape routes when pressed!

BTW MY son hunts with a 300wby and barnes bullets and its proven to be a good combo
BEST OF LUCK




(Edited by 340mag at 12:41 pm on June 4, 2002)

 

[Hook]

340Mag, Dingo Jack, Welcome to Jesses.

Good posts, thanks for the info. Almost time for the draw results....