Better Shooting

myfriendis410

Well-known member
Dude! When you hunt everything goes out the window. You're gonna miss. I applaud you for practicing and it looks to me like you are being responsible in your practice regimen. Misses are still going to happen when hunting; it's just a fact of life.

If you want to reduce recoil, the hands-down number one way to do it is to put a muzzle brake on. I shoot a .300 win mag and it has the recoil of a 22-250. Seriously. The trade-off is noise. If I shoot it in the field at an animal it is like having ice picks driven into my ears. AND; I'm already deafened by too much shooting over the years.

Cheap practice to manage sight picture and trigger and follow-through is best accomplished with a good rimfire rifle. You can also shoot a lot more for less money. Unfortunately you still have to put trigger time into the big-boom stuff too.
 

Sniper Chuck

Well-known member
Bruce,

You are heating up your barrels shooting that many shots that fast. Hot barrels sling bullets all over the place. 3 round groups for hunting barrels and 5 rounds for varmint type heavy barrels. Try to shoot "groups" not "patterns." A good recoil pad will help tame that magnum and it never hurts to wear a shoulder pad while shooting from the bench no matter what you are shooting. I put a brake on a rifle and it tamed the recoil, but the muzzle blast was horrible. I am no longer a brake fan.

Next time you go shooting try shooting at a target that has several smaller targets. Shoot each group at a different target, allowing the barrel to cool to ambient temperature. That'll give you a better idea of what your rifles are able to shoot.

Next question, how do you clean your rifles???

Chuck
 

myfriendis410

Well-known member
Bruce,

You are heating up your barrels shooting that many shots that fast. Hot barrels sling bullets all over the place. 3 round groups for hunting barrels and 5 rounds for varmint type heavy barrels. Try to shoot "groups" not "patterns." A good recoil pad will help tame that magnum and it never hurts to wear a shoulder pad while shooting from the bench no matter what you are shooting. I put a brake on a rifle and it tamed the recoil, but the muzzle blast was horrible. I am no longer a brake fan.

Next time you go shooting try shooting at a target that has several smaller targets. Shoot each group at a different target, allowing the barrel to cool to ambient temperature. That'll give you a better idea of what your rifles are able to shoot.

Next question, how do you clean your rifles???

Chuck
All good advice. Small targets allow for more precise aiming. I use a blank target (I turn it over) and put 1" orange dots on it. Good bags are nice to have. I don't really care for the store-bought rests as you won't have one with you when you're hunting.

I've really had pointed out to me (by my rifles) that shooting copper really fouls the barrel. If you aren't cleaning with a good copper solvent you are not getting the barrel clean. I use the Barnes CR10--it's nasty so use it in a well-ventilated area. It's amazing the amount of fouling that comes out, and the groups shrink right back down to where they're supposed to be.

And, as Chuck said: You're trying to shoot groups, not patterns.
 

J.O.

Well-known member
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Birchwood-Casey-Paper-Sight-In-Target-12/16879505 I use these targets. There 1" increments. I buy them from the local wal mart. super cheap.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/showthread.php/221874-Problems-sighting-in-Rifle...PLEASE-HELP-ASAP This thread might help. Theres allot of good advise from people in there. I had a cleaning issue with mine. It sounds to me like your going too fast (wait 3-6min per round), not letting the barrel cool, and a cleanliness issue.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/352-Gun-Ranges-Places-To-Shoot-Range-Stories this is where Jesse is probably implying where to put these questions.
 

Where's Bruce?

Well-known member
I'm getting a muzzle break on the winmag and recoil pad from Bob at http://www.americhoke.com/
I also signed up for the Appleseed course in Corona next month. i still think optics are my issue but we'll take each thing on one at a time and see. Thanks guys! good.gif
 

spectr17

Administrator
Admin
I've got a .300 WM Winchester. IMHO, brakes add weight and length and are too freaking loud. Add a good recoil pad and you'll forget about the mule kick. I've got a Pachmyr on mine, make sure and grind down the sharp edges of the pad with a dremel so they are round, then tend to grab jackets when mounting the gun.

I shot 14 different bullets to find the most accurate ones. Some wouldn't group any better than 2" or 3". The best was 190 grain Win silvertips. 1" group @100 yds. I ended up hunting with Nosler Partitions which I could get to 1 1/4" groups. Try different bullets and loads to see what your barrel likes.

400-600 yards shots at game? In my 45 years of hunting I can count on both hands the number of riflemen I've witnessed make those long range shots consistently. Why? They shot their rifles almost daily and know how to dope wind. Out here in the west you're shooting in windy areas many times. Most of us can't even get out once a week to practice let alone 400 yards with wind to simulate REAL conditions. Most of those claiming to be long range experts just spray and pray. I saw where you mentioned on CalGuns you didn't want to practice on coyotes because you'd be maiming them. That's what most do at those ranges if they are lucky enough to even hit the animal. Wise old saying, "Aim for hair, not air". Meaning if you have to hold over the chance of making a bad shot goes way up. Say you can get decent at the range at 400 yards, what is going to be your go/no go consistency level? Hit animal 50% of the time? 75%. Every time we pull the trigger we're supposed to be CONFIDENT we'll hit the boiler room, we're not supposed to be throwing out Hail Mary's. Each 50 yards you add to a shot distance increases what can go wrong. Same with a bow.

I shoot a .300 because it doesn't get pushed around in the wind like a smaller caliber. It's why the snipers in the sandbox have gone to the .300s also. I've been standing in 20-30 mph gusting wind while someone attempted to do a cross canyon shot and I asked them what their Kentucky Windage was at 200 yds. Most don't even know and have never shot in that kind of crosswind. My .300 is over a foot in that kind of wind at 200 yards. Shoot the conditions and then create a table for the data that you can carry with you. I have mine on a little metal pull out tape that mounts to my scope, windage and bullet drop put to 400 yards. I've never killed anything past 150 yards with this gun, I did the range work out to 400 yards for just in case.

The best thing to do is learn how to get closer. I know, what a concept, learn to stalk and get in range for a sure kill. It you can't that's the breaks, sit back and watch the animal and learn from them. If someone can't consistently kill animals at long range they have no business lobbing ammo like that. I have a lot more respect for the hunter who admits the shot is too far outside their comfort zone than the guy who empties the rifle and shrugs and blames it on the wind, buck fever, the gun etc. It's the hardest thing to learn to do in hunting when you see a nice animal, to just walk away and try another day. Some learn to do it and some never do.
 

Sniper Chuck

Well-known member
What Jesse said about the brake. Pachmyr Decelerator pads will take a lot of the recoil energy from your rifle. I'd start there for the recoil. I have one on every rifle I own and I really appreciate it on my .35 Whelen AI shooting the 250 grain Partitions. I've shot .300 Win and Wby mags and the Whelen will out recoil both.

Because I have the advantage of reloading my ammo and having a lathe and the proper tooling I can rebarrel a gun that shoots 1" or more groups. It's just my disease. I will work up loads to accomplish my goal. If the barrel won't shoot, it goes in the pile. I have the cronos and computer to run the ballistics. Because of my Army Sniper training I feel comfortable taking longer shots but I still will work to take a closer shot if possible. I've taken two coyotes at 500+ yards. I know my rifle, ranged them and had a steady rest. Longer shots are not for everybody and I won't take the shot unless I am 100% sure of the outcome.

For those less fortunate I suggest buying boxes of ammo from various makers and various weights. Shoot to see which ammo your gun "likes." When you find that particular ammo, go back to the store and buy several boxes, making sure to get the same lot number. The culled boxes can be use for plinking and fouling the barrel after cleaning. Once you have established grouping and after repeated firing your rifle starts to open up the groups, it's telling you something. "Clean me, I'm fouled badly." Use a good copper solvent with a coated or carbon fiber rod and a bore guide. Also, buy the brushes that have an aluminum or brass base. The steel ones will wreck a good muzzle. When you think it's clean use Sweets 7.62 solvent on a small patch, sloppy wet, and let it soak for a few minutes. Run a tight dry patch through. If the patch comes out with any blue color, get back to work, it's still fouled with copper. Once you get it really clean you'll need to shoot a couple "foulers" before shooting for groups again. Always let the barrel cool between shot strings and fouling.

Damn, have to get going. Work!
 

henmar77

Well-known member
Like I said, Running shoes
For someone that is having difficulty staying accurate I recomend leaving the running shoes at home. Jogging to the target is only going to increase your heart rate, raise your level anxiety and decrease your level of accuracy.
I'm sure your range mates might appreciate it, but to me its not worth it.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
 

Where's Bruce?

Well-known member
I am not planning to take any long distance shots are game however, I believe if I can become procient at shooting 400-600 yards then my 200 yard shots will be easy and not so daunting. Besides, killing paper is fun and is a great stress reliever. Ever since I started shooting a bow i have been learning about stalking skills but it has also made me more aware of the need to master shooting further away so you can hit the pump when shooting closer. But no...I don't see myself shooting 600 yards at elk or anything.
 

Where's Bruce?

Well-known member
Yeah. I was hesitant because it was short range but then I saw the size of the targets (thumbnail size) and how the military uses these kinda targets to improve long range accuracy. Then i went to the LA range with my .300WM and found the benefits of the course really did carry over to long range shooting. I easily doubled effective range in a weekend. I never realized how unstable my body was prior. Now that i have my anchor points down, the difference is incredible. But they are not comfortable at all. Man oh man did I leave that course sore.
 

ltdann

Well-known member
I hear ya. When I got assigned to the Marines, I got the opportunity to go thru the two week Marine Marksmanship course. The first week is just dry firing and getting the positions down. I felt like a sumo wrestler had used me as a rag doll. Didn't help that the M-16 they gave me had a trigger pull like a rusty come-along.

By the end of the two weeks, I put 8 out of 10 rounds in the black at 500 meters....with iron sights. Hell, I could barely see the target, it was like magic to me.

It does in fact work. My favorite is the sitting and kneeling.

I couldn't take that 500 meter shot today, no way. 250 yds is my personal limit, and thats if I'm prone.
 

Where's Bruce?

Well-known member
My pattern fell apart beyond 200 yards prior to this course, now it consistent to 300 and i'm hitting the steel at 400 (but they won't let me set up targets that far at LA. Arrggg.
 

solus

Well-known member
IDK if anyone suggested this yet but a better trigger with less pull weight also greatly helps but they can get expensive
 


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