BLM Plan Released - Disappoints

Marty

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[excerpt] Victorville Daily Press,
Check out the enviro b.s. comments regarding guzzlers...


• GUZZLERS:
NECO has provisions to set up guzzlers, or watering holes for animals to drink from in the desert.

Environmentalists:
Pat Flannigan, desert representative for the California Wilderness Coalition, said she considers the guzzler installations a big issue.

“There is no scientific research on the impact of guzzlers on wildlife,” she said. “Animals can fall in and drown. It can act as a magnet for predators (of tortoises) — mountain lions, bobcats, foxes, coyotes.”

She said she thinks the addition of the guzzlers might be “over-management of habitat.”

“I look at the concentration of guzzlers here and see the total lack of research on effects of guzzlers on all other animals,” she said.

Also, Flannigan said she is concerned the animals the guzzlers would attract might eat grasses that the tortoises had been eating.

Bureau of Land Management:
Crowe said the proposal to put in guzzlers came from the California Department of Fish and Game.  He said he doesn’t think the guzzlers would necessarily lead to predators killing significantly more tortoises.

“The current take of tortoises by ravens in this part of the desert is not as great as in other parts of the desert,” he said.

He also said that many species would be attracted to the watering holes.

“Rabbits, ground squirrels, all kinds of critters would use these waters,” he said. “Perhaps their population might go up, so then the coyotes would be feeding on them, so it kind of reduces the pressure on tortoises.”

Hunting is another aspect of putting in guzzlers, Crowe said.

“Some people speculate that deer-hunting is a particularly important recreational pastime,” he said. “The number of waters helps hold the number or increase the number of deer for hunting purposes. I think they hope big-horned sheep would get up to the number where they can be hunted as well.”
 



Cynic

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Environmentalists must have an agenda, and it must be something they truely believe in. But I'll be damned if I can see it.

The only idea I've come up with is so cynical that I have to doubts it. They can't actively seek the destruction of wildlife and wilderness areas, can they?

We all know people who fear the outdoors. People who hate the idea of spending any time away from concrete and smog, noise and crowds. Based on my observations of the actions of environmentalists, I am forced to consider the possibility that such people are in charge of the environmentalist movement.

The very existance of endangered animals gives them political power. To keep political power, there must be more and more threatened ecosystems. The more pollution, the more power such people hold. The more influence they gain.

Remove the water from the desert and more and more animals will die. The more animals die, the greater their political power. Seems simple enough to me.

Eliminate logging and more and more dead timber builds up. The more fuel, the hotter a fire burns... the more damage it does. The more damage done to the forests, the greater their influence. Seems to fit.

I'm a cynical person, and I see no other way to interpret the actions of these so-called environmentalists.

I think it's dangerous to assume that they're simply stupid and incompetent.
 

DKScott

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The whole movement has become dominated by lawyers and is driven by it's overhead.  They have to constantly litigate and create conflict and hysteria to keep the money rolling in.  They have become a lot like junkies - always in search of the their next fix.

Pretty sad really, there should be a natural alliance here (no pun)

The Sacramento Bee ran a great series of articles a year or two ago that really laid it all out.  Does anybody know if the articles are available online? Should be required reading before being allowed to vote.

Scott
 

shaginator

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
“There is no scientific research on the impact of guzzlers on wildlife,” she said. “Animals can fall in and drown. It can act as a magnet for predators (of tortoises) — mountain lions, bobcats, foxes, coyotes.”[/b]
Typical self-conflicting statement. If there's no scientific research, then how does she know that animals drown to the point that guzzlers present a significant problem to any given species?
 

Mojave

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(Weird new format - I'll have to get used to it)
Ridiculous statement on the effect of guzzlers on wildlife. We first built guzzlers on our desert property about 3 years ago, and the local wildlife has increased about tenfold. The miles-long trails leading to our "waterholes" can be seen from an aircraft. Humans have artificially LOWERED the water table, drying up natural springs and seeps. Building and maintaining guzzlers help to restore the natural order of things!
Re: Ravens: I have found numerous juvenile tortoise shells in and under raven (Corvus Corvax) nests, all throughout the Mojave. They are multiplying at an unnatural rate, because of the availability of human's garbage. They should be classified as a "varmint", with open hunting encouraged, and maybe even a bounty!
 

LAgunman2K

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the enviro-nazis want research, but with no guzzlers how can there be research ?

these people are MORONS X 100




HELL, pay me to build, maintain and research these things
 

huntducks

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Guy's this has nothing to do with animals or guzzlers.

It's all about guns, and hunters own guns, tree huggers don't they don't want you to own one so this group attacks your right to hunt the other attacks your right to own a gun with nither you do neither.

These people will not stop until they achive there goal, if all but a few of the huntable animals die off that is fine with them even all of them, it will end hunting on Mojave NP as hunters will just stop hunting there, then they will have a use study and find that hunting is not one of the top 5 things there, after a few years the same huggers will demand guzzlers and a restocking program minus hunting.

I'll bet you Pat Flannigan is also a member of some anti-gun group, it all goes hand in hand
 


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