Bring me up to speed.

tmoniz

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Okay. So I'm a political idiot.
I just read the back of a can that said, "apply Liberal amounts."

So here is my story.
I like trees. But I'm not part of the fruit and nut crowd.
I love to hunt.
I'm registered as an Independent.
But I don't vote for them.
Sometimes I get so bored and frustrated with the whole political/election process that I just don't vote.
Most of my friends are very politically minded.
I avoid those conversations.

I wanted to go flyfishing this weekend. But the price of gas put the damper on that idea.
 



easymoney

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A liberal is someone who is so open minded their brains fell out...
 

Common Sense

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A liberal thinks government will improve everything.

A conservative thinks government will screw up most things.
 

tmoniz

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Oh come on guys.
Easy.
I know you can do better than that.
Enlighten me.
 

Hartseeker

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Common Sense @ Apr 25 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
A liberal thinks government will improve everything.

A conservative thinks government will screw up most things.[/b]
Discussion over.
 

swampy tim

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Consevative: favoring private enterprise and freedom from governmental control (Oxford American Dictionary). Additionally, conservatives believe in the rule of law and a moral code generally derived from biblical sources. Which is to say, rights are granted by God not man, and with rights come responcabilitys.

Liberal: favoring democratic reform and individual liberty, moderately progressive (Oxford American Dictionary). This may have been the case at the turn of the century (1900) but the liberals have gone 180 since the then. Liberals now believe that a government and the rules of man supersede the morality of God. Liberals believe that all solutions to man's problems can be found in a centralized governmental program, and will force even those who don't want the help to comply. The new classical liberal (at least according to the definition) is the George Bush Neo-cons. The democrats are now full blown socialists, and the republican are becoming insignificant. Barry Goldwater was a conservative, Pat Buchanon is a conservative, Ronald Reagan spoke as a conservative but was forced to give in to the democrat congress in order to get some things done. S/T
 

Hitechhunter

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CommonSense hit the nail on the head. It really is that simple.

The elitist liberals want to control the government so they can regulate and control us measly fools and save us from our ignorant selves. Conservatives (NOT John McCain!) believe in equality, liberty and minimal control from the inefficient and unwise government.
 

chuckslayer

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First off; the very term "liberal" is an oxymoron..if you consider the root of the term, namely ..liberty ! The only liberty they believe in is the liberty of government to control the lives of individual citizens .
The liberals believe in big government and believe that they are the only ones that are entitled to run that government. They desire through that government, to control what you do for a living, what you can drive, what you can eat, what you may smoke, who you should
associate with, how much you can earn (after taxes), and in the name of "ecology" or "public interest"..what you can do as a hobby,
what kind of gun you are allowed to own (if any), what you can hunt (IF you are allowed to hunt)who you can sell or rent your home to
..and in some cases, if you can sell or buy one.They don't even want to leave girl & boy babies alone in their mother's womb !

Conservatives tend to be more in the mode of "you mind your business and I'll mind mine ". They only want the government to do what only the govt can do..such as, Interstate highways, FAA, FCC, defense, national health watch and PROTECTION OF OUR BORDERS.

(time limited,more to be posted later)
 

easymoney

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Can't add much to what these gentlemen have stated.
Liberals want a nanny state, socialism with more government and to feel everything first and spout what ever comes to out,
Conservatives want less government, more personal rights, lower taxes, and think with their heads before they speak...
 

upperEA

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Liberals want all the money to go to the government so they can dole it out to people who don't want to make their own (the minority).

Conservatives want all the policys of that government to favor big business so all that money given these people can go to them(also the minority).

Most of us, somewhere in middle (the majority) are hanging on for dear life hoping some day a canidate will run that would like us to keep our own money and do with it as we choose.
 

tmoniz

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Thanks for the clarification folks.
I opposed the Viet Nam War.
And when my number came up in the Draft I decided to join the Coast Guard.
Put my time in and headed back to College.
I felt as though the Government had cost me several good friends that I grew up with.
2 over there and 2 that came back so strung out, they died in very violent auto crashes.

This is a complicated world today. One side says they are right. The other side says they are right.
Confusing.
 

swampy tim

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upperEA you are confusing conservative with capitolist. Conservitives use the capitolist system but are about much more than the system. A capitolist can be of any political persuasion. Look at China for example. They use the capitolist system but are the furthest thing from conservitive. From what little I know about the libertarians they are not the ones for me. I don't beleive in open boarders, any and all forms of drug use or abortion at any stage of development. I do beleive in the rule of law, the death penalty and limets to taxation and government programs. S/T
 

Jeff S.

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Back in my college days I was a liberal because I didn't want the government messing with my life. Now I'm a liberal because I don't want the government messing with my life.

Interesting how the Democratic party has changed. Republicans were the party who got things like the Civil Rights Act passed while Dems opposed. Remember Wallace (a democrat) standing in the doorway of the university saying. "segregation now and forever" while Al Gore's father, a republican voted for the act.

Truthfully, nearly every very corrupt local regime, like Mayor Daley, most of the politicians in New Orleans, Marion Barry, on and on are Democrats. Though the limousine liberals (like most of Hollywood) would disagree, the truth is that Liberalism and the Democratic party appeals to the most ignorant and idealistic of America where conservatism appeals to the thinking pragmatic people. Just an observation.
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swampy tim @ Apr 26 2008, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
upperEA you are confusing conservative with capitolist. Conservitives use the capitolist system but are about much more than the system. A capitolist can be of any political persuasion. Look at China for example. They use the capitolist system but are the furthest thing from conservitive. From what little I know about the libertarians they are not the ones for me. I don't beleive in open boarders, any and all forms of drug use or abortion at any stage of development. I do beleive in the rule of law, the death penalty and limets to taxation and government programs. S/T[/b]

You have a problem with a capitalism? Is that what you are trying to say? Capitalist?

Libertarians are not for open borders. They may be for the right of a man to trade with who he pleases but hardly for open borders. They aren't for any and all forms of drug use. They may believe that what an adult person does on his free time is his own business. And they most certainly aren't for abortion. Libertarians hold one premise above all, no one has a right to initiate physical violence against any other. Considering that most would judge life starting at conception most libertarians are strongly against abortion.
 

upperEA

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
upperEA you are confusing conservative with capitalist[/b]
I don't think I'm confused at all SW. The way I see it they are one in the same. I understand that it was that dink Clinton who allowed NAFTA to kill the very state I live in but the Conservatives have been for a free market from day one. And if I'm not mistaken that is the predominant trait of a capitalist free market, big industry. I have seen very few liberals except the very top echelon to be for big business. They seem to view them more as an adversary (unless it was a state run industry) to the lesser more helpless folk such as us who could never live without them taking care of us.
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (upperEA @ Apr 27 2008, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
upperEA you are confusing conservative with capitalist[/b]
I don't think I'm confused at all SW. The way I see it they are one in the same. I understand that it was that dink Clinton who allowed NAFTA to kill the very state I live in but the Conservatives have been for a free market from day one. And if I'm not mistaken that is the predominant trait of a capitalist free market, big industry. I have seen very few liberals except the very top echelon to be for big business. They seem to view them more as an adversary (unless it was a state run industry) to the lesser more helpless folk such as us who could never live without them taking care of us.
[/b][/quote]


I am a little confused Upper... Are you saying that NAFTA is a free market? It isn't. A free market doesn't need a trade agreement to sell out our soveriergnty. The predominant trait of a free market is freedom and liberty. What you have now is not a free market. It is corporate socialism. If you think free market capitialist are what the republican party has disolved into, it isn't. A free market capitialist identifies that first and foremost we must have a currency backed by gold and silver that cannot be counterfeited by a national bank, that we can't maintain a empire spread throughout the globe and that "commerce with all, entagling alliances with none" is in the best financial interest of this country.

If you are curious to see what free market capitialist believe take a look at some of the views of these websites, Lew Rockwell, Antistate, Antiwar, Pro-Market or Austrian Economics

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
helpless folk[/b]
Whom are you speaking of?
 

upperEA

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I guess I should have clarified myself a little better. When I said free trade I ment the advancement of big corporations at the expense of the american worker. No NAFTA is not free trade, it is loppsided to favor everyone but the american worker. Do you want to see a true free market R? Call it what you want but the way I see it we do not want a true free trade market. On one hand we get ticked when our larger corporations pack up and move to a country where the labor is cheap, and on the other, we want those goods tariffed to the point they equal the price of american goods or our products shipped to foreign countries sold teriff free. We need trade agreements that keep jobs in the US and the dollar strong. I firmly believe that we would be a third world country within a decade if we had a true free trade market. Please tell me (in all sincerity) what being spread throughout the globe and our alliances have to do with a free trade market? I can see the financial burden aspect and strained realtions with various contries due to some of our alliances but beyond that I guess you lost me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Whom are you speaking of?[/b]
I am speaking of you and I. The ones who could never get along in life without the protection of our elected caindates and laws they inact for our benifit
<------ hope that helps....
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (upperEA @ Apr 27 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I guess I should have clarified myself a little better. When I said free trade I ment the advancement of big corporations at the expense of the american worker. No NAFTA is not free trade, it is loppsided to favor everyone but the american worker. Do you want to see a true free market R? Call it what you want but the way I see it we do not want a true free trade market. On one hand we get ticked when our larger corporations pack up and move to a country where the labor is cheap, and on the other, we want those goods tariffed to the point they equal the price of american goods or our products shipped to foreign countries sold teriff free. We need trade agreements that keep jobs in the US and the dollar strong. I firmly believe that we would be a third world country within a decade if we had a true free trade market. Please tell me (in all sincerity) what being spread throughout the globe and our alliances have to do with a free trade market? I can see the financial burden aspect and strained realtions with various contries due to some of our alliances but beyond that I guess you lost me.[/b]
Do I want a true free market? YES in every sense of the word. Why do we need trade agreements? People should be able to trade when they desire. There is no guarantee that the same exact sort of work will stay here in the United States. Why should there be? So what does a trade agreement come down to? It comes down to some big wig for say General Motors basically wanting the government through military guarantee to enforce their private property rights if they open a plant in Mexico and say Mexico were to nationalize their markets. GM should take that risk on their own. Basically we are arguing for the same thing, ending anti-american things like NAFTA, NAU etc etc.

I will say that with our current economic plan we will be a 3rd world country in 5 years. How can a free trade agreement keep the dollar strong? Being spread throughout the world in a far flung empire effects exactly that, the strength of our dollar. We must print and print and print and then borrow and hope that those purchasing our debt for much less interest than the money supply is being inflated won't see through our smoke and mirrors. When they do and they will it is all over. Plain and simple, we can't afford a far flung empire.
 


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