Ca. regs on muzzleloaders?

k_rad

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Does anyone know the regs on Muzzleloader sales in Ca? Turners has no clue where my Savage slug gun is and I am going up to FHL in two weeks. My TC Hawken's broken stock is on back order. So I am thinking of going down to Bass Pro and picking up an Omega. They say some I can Cash & Carry and some I still have to wait the ten/11 days. It's getting close and I'm getting nervous. I don't want to be stuck without a ML or slug shooter if those are the only good area's open...If I get an Omega are those wait ten days or C&C? help...
 

ltdann

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Never heard such a thing. I recently bought a hawkins .50 online, and the only thing they wanted from me was my CC number.

BATF says:
As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —
  • any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
  • any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
    • is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    • uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
  • any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
From CA attorney general:
Exceptions
The term firearm does not apply to a federally defined “antique” firearm for the purpose of dealer
licensing requirements, sales or loans between private parties, or requirements to obtain a Handgun
Safety Certificate pursuant to Penal Code sections 12070, 12071, subdivisions (b) (c) or (d) of
12072, or 12073. The term firearm does not apply to federally defined “curio” or “relic” long guns
over 50 years old for the purpose of transfers between private parties. (Penal Code §§ 12001(e),
12078(t)(2).)


I read that as CASH and CARRY BABY!
 

myfriendis410

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Dan is correct; an inline muzzleloader is exempt from the DROS system and Federal 4473 with it's ten day wait. What is confusing is when you buy an ENCORE, which is a controlled receiver as it can accept centerfire barrels. THAT is a ten day wait. The Omega, being a dedicated inline muzzleloader is not considered a firearm in California. You can even order it from Bass Pro or Cabelas and they will ship it to your door.
 

k_rad

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First of all thanks. Lt. Dann and 410 your input, info. advice is always appreciated. Talked to Bass Pro and they said the Encore has the 10 day wait because it has the interchangable barrels and can be switched to a shotgun barrel etc. hence the name Encore( multi platform) Enter: the regs from Lt. Dann's post:
" any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
So I can get the Omega but can't get it shipped, and heres why. Turners tells me that specific to LA county there are no 50 cal. barrel sales allowed... So Turners(Reseda) can't order it for me and I can't get it shipped to my house. Which is in LA county. No big deal I can still go to Bass Pro (San Berdoo co.) and pick it up. Happy.
I sure would have loved to have a bolt action slug gun though. Something that can accurately shoot out to two hundred yds. and that I wouldn't feel like a jackass putting a scope on. I will not put a scope on a muzzel loader. (don't mean to offend anyone who has one) It just seems like cheating... I'll just use my centerfires for that...By the way Turners is giving me a refund. They finally got ahold of Savage and apparently they will not be makeing a run of that slug gun in 20 ga. any time soon. Not enough demand...sucks.
 

k_rad

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so I went ahead and ordered the HD camo , thumb hole, stainless Omega. I can pick it up next week. What else should I be getting for it? Powder, pellets.(gonna try both) 209 shotgun primers right? what kind of cleaner, an finally copper sabots but what kind of regular sabots? whats cheap lead to get used to it? Anything else?
Daym I am so excited
I think I piddled...
 

myfriendis410

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Get Blackhorn 209 powder and standard Winchester or Remington 209 primers. Buy a measure and some speedloaders. Do not buy pellets. Do not buy Pyrodex and for goodness sakes don't buy American Pioneer! (Shockey's Gold)

The Barnes 250 gr. TEZ is the bullet to get. As for cleaning solvent: Hoppe's #9 with the Blackhorn and Windex if using 777. You don't need a cleaning brush, just patches. Thread antiseize for the threads on the breech plug. It will come with a starter for your ramrod but you might want to get a palm saver for your rod. (That did NOT come out right) and there's a cool silicone primer holder that's handy.

Absolutely NO reason not to put a scope on your inline. It will look really cool and it makes it into a 200+ yard gun. It will also hit harder than any slug gun. My Omega shot THROUGH a 202 lb. (gutted) boar at 215 yards. After chopping through major bone. If you shot a slug gun without a scope it would not be a 200 yard gun either, so my advice is to get past it, man.

Here's a picture of mine.
 

Gander

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dont use winchester primers, they are not hot enough for sure fire with blackhorn. You want CCI 209M or Federal 209A primers. These are the top 2 primers that blackhorn will recommend to you.
 

myfriendis410

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WW209's have worked just fine for me ever since BH209 came out. In fact, our store doesn't sell anything but WW and Cheddites and almost every inline shooter here uses the WW primer and BH209 now. Again, no complaints from any of them.
 

k_rad

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Absolutely NO reason not to put a scope on your inline. It will look really cool and it makes it into a 200+ yard gun. It will also hit harder than any slug gun. My Omega shot THROUGH a 202 lb. (gutted) boar at 215 yards. After chopping through major bone. If you shot a slug gun without a scope it would not be a 200 yard gun either said:
Ok, It may take some therapy but I will try to get past it...:confused:. Wonder if the humidity in Co. makes the powder wetter? Here, it is so dry it's probably less of an issue...
How often should I swab and clean between shots. The TC Hawken had to be swabed three-5 times between shots or I couldn't get the rod down the barrel. How often will I be removing the breech plug? Should I get pipe cleaner to clean the primer hole?
 

myfriendis410

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If you use Blackhorn you do NOT need to clean your gun. In fact, we "foul" the gun and then load it on the range prior to hunting and then carry it. That above hog was killed by a load I stuffed down the barrel on October 13, 2008 and pulled the trigger in late February 2009!

I do advise removing the breech plug and putting some thread anti-seize on the pug's threads prior to first shot fired. If you are worried about the flash hole in the breech plug you can blow it out with compressed air--it's what I use after cleaning it with a toothbrush and Hoppe's #9. In fact, you won't be able to get a pipe cleaner down it as it's only about .035" in diameter.

Humidity is NOT your friend with 777, Pyrodex or black powder. It's not a factor with BH 209.
 

k_rad

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035, I can use a piece of MIG flux core wire. So stratagy for hunting may be pellets. I know they are more $ but I want to try and minimize steps in case I can /need to take a second shot. Can I get 777 and Blackhorn at Angeles Range reloading store? Any body know another muzzel loading supply place in San Fernando valley?
 

myfriendis410

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Loose powder is just as easy to work with as pellets. You need a speedloader anyway so just get one that accepts loose powder. Basically one with two chambers is all you need.

BH 209 can be bought at Bass Pro in Rancho Cucamonga. I'm sure there are a bunch of stores in the L.A. area that carry it. Let your fingers do the walking......
 

k_rad

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So then what kind of scope are we talking? I have an old Bushnell that I will be using right away because it doesn't have a home. I may take off the old Leopold on my 7mm rem mag because it is an old center post kind and I need windage marks for that gun. Maybe it'll work ok on the ML because I don't need windage for it...
 

ltdann

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Scopes are really a personal choice. I never saw the need to go more than 3x9. Most of mine are 40mm to fit the barrel profile. The only 50mm I have is on the slug gun because it fits the barrel.

Conventional wisdom says buy the best optics you can afford. That said, you need to balance that statement against 1) How often are you really gonna use the ML 2) Do you really need a $600 scope for a 200yd gun?
 

myfriendis410

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Dan has a point. The other thing for us is we use the m/l more than our centerfires, even in a rifle area. They are just plain cool.

I have the new Leupold "Sabr" reticle scope on my Omega, but actually prefer the Nikon "Omega" scope with the BDC. Lovely little number. The Leupold is nice but the reticle is a bit heavy for me.

Your older Leupold with a post might be a great choice. If you load your muzzleloader with BH 209, sight it in 3" high with the Barnes TEZ bullet, it will be about 6" low at 200 yards. That will pretty much take care of most shooting situations.
 

k_rad

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Gander

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I just use a Bushnell Sportsman 3-9x32 on my Accura. Great little scope and holds up well.

I did some shooting with BH209 yesterday at the NRA in new mexico and tried 3 shots with Winchester W209 primers. Its a NO-NO. Hang a hangfire on my last shot. Im not going to risk wounding or losing an animal due to the weak primers. CCI 209M or Federal 209A's only for me.
 


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