Catch and Release - Trophy Elk Hunting

[CWSMACKDOWN]

This was on a website I found from a ranch in Colorado. I did not include the name of the ranch for advertisement purposes.

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Archery Catch and Release - Trophy Elk Hunting: on our game ranch and preserve, we raise trophy class elk, mule deer and woods buffalo. We offer guaranteed three day hunts on the preserve and can provide any size trophy Boone and Crockett bulls you choose, as well as management bulls for meat.

Catch and Release Hunting is the newest innovative concept in trophy hunting! We shoot with high powered and keenly precision German dart guns giving you a full range of fire. This also gives us the opportunity to take marvelous video of your entire hunt and still photos with your once in a lifetime world class bull elk. We then cut off the horns and you receive from the taxidermist a beautiful European mount (or shoulder mount upon request) of the real actual horns from your bull. The animals return to the comforts of their natural Rocky Mountain habitat ready to begin the regrowth of one of the world's fastest growing natural resources, Elk Velvet / Antler.[/b]

 

[Shane]

That's a pretty beat up topic on other boards, for sure. A can of worms with no end in site.

Best,
~ Shane

 

[bzzboyz]

They had a booth at the last hunting show I went to. Seemed pretty interesting and the guy did'nt seem like some get rich quick kind of guy. After talking to him he seemd to be more of an old school rancher type who was just looking to maintain his herds of elk and give hunters an option. They cut off the horns and save the hides from culled or meat animals for the mounts. If it is the same guy. He also had traditional hunting as well. It's nothing new though. This has been practiced in Africa for Rhino's for years.

One thought though. If you think big bulls are shy after being shot at or pursued over the years in the wild. How do you think that big bull will act if once a year he all of a sudden wakes up with a hangover and no head gear.

What happend, what happened? I had horns when I got up this morning. Now I'm gonna get my butt kicked for the next year. And I darn sure not gonna get any with this bald head of mine

 

[YH88]

 

[EL CAZADOR]

This furthermore adds fuel to the anti's fire . . . that the only reason we hunt is for the "trophy" aspect of it and not the meat.

I don't like it!!

 

[QuailMan5]

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I don't like it!![/b]

Ditto.

Recycling game? This seems to eliminate the ageless (and natural) connection between man and beast entirely ... respect, admiration, and the sanctity of life are all lost

If you are going to hunt, either kill the animal or don't ... don't screw with it

 

[MULEY51]

AMEN Quailman!

 

[Freedivr2]

Quailman5, right on target............Animal cruelty at it's finest here! This subject really hit a nerve with me, and my following comment might open up a can of worms, but since someone posted this topic, maybe it's time to finally say it.........

I've always been against catch and release (trout in particular, other fish like Makos and bass are hardier and can take the abuse, but the point still applies). To me, it seems like animal cruelty........and what's the real point here? For the fisherman to have fun solely at the expense of stressing the fish out to it's max, many times beyond where it will recover? And because they can release the fish, there is no limit to how many fish they can do that to. When I fish, there's a limit that I can't go beyond. I don't stress out 20 or 30 fish!!! I fish for fun BUT take the fish home that I stress, and stop when I hit my limit, don't continue fishing just because it's fun. There's some ethics to it too.

My father in law lives in Utah. He's seen this over and over where trout fishermen catch and release over and over. What the fishermen DON'T see is the trout floating dead the next day. The survival rate (he says) is about 50% from just his observations (Utah trout, BTW).

Do Marlin survive after battling for their life for 1 hour? Dunno.....I do know that when you slow a fish down and predators (sharks/sea lions) are in the area, they can take a slowed down fish. How many marlin released end up getting eaten that day by sharks? I dunno, but I bet there's more than a few to every dozen released.

The only catch and release I think might be OK is sharks, since they are at the top of the food chain and are hardy. But lesser critters, I feel it's just plain mean to do that to em.

There's my 2 cents, fire away flyfishermen, all you want, gunna be tough to change my mind. The proof of my point is simply in those dead trout a floatin on the lake the next day.

 

[Shot]

Freedivr2,

I agree with you about the catch and release issue, once I catch my limit thats it for me, no more. But some catch and release I think are ok. For example, when fishing for trout and you catch a little dinger you want to release it, here is why (under these conditions). First, the small fish can be reeled in farely quick where this wouldn't cause that much stress. Second, if the fish is hooked on the lip, then the removel is rarely quick and causes less damage, but if the hook is deep inside the mouth or stomach, the fish becomes food for me. Third, proper release, which is not to remove the protective layer of gel (forgot what its called) on the fish, you do this by wetting your hands before handeling and keep it at a minium. This doesn't happen all the time, but when it does I release the fish. Then again thats just my 2 cents.

How for hunting. Catch and release? What the hell will they think of next? Netting an Elf? I think thats just wrong. These people just do it for the antlers, then go hunting for sheds and leave the animals alone. Hunting gets enough bad rap and now we have to deal with this. First the animal gets stress because they have been hit by a dart. Second, more stress from recovering from the drug. Third, the antlers cut off and it can't no longer fight with other bulls. Damn, this gets me pissed. Don't this people know what respect is?

 

[Haary]

I agree with Freedvr2. I feel catch and release for fish is a cruel and unsual activity. To hook a fish and jerk it around with the hook just for the amusement of the fisherman is outrageous. An animal or fish needs to harvested in as humane and painless manner as possible. Jerking a fish around with a hook in it's mouth and then pulling the hook and releasing it is certainly not a humane or painless act.

I definitely think shooting an animal with a dart and then cutting it's horns off repeatedly is not a humane or painless act either. Too many people already believe that harvesting an animal is inhumane. We don't need to add fuel to the believe that hunters are inhumane and cruel.

 

[Freedivr2]

I don't know what you might call this, but a couple of years ago I used to tell people that I was going to put a "Catch and release" bumper sticker on one side of my bumper and a "Shoot to wound" sticker on the other side with a big equal sign between...........ironic that the shoot to wound (or maime) is actually coming about with this elk thing.

Haary made a real good point about the last thing we need is to be viewed as cruel people.

Where our sport of hunting truly is a proven tool for wildlife management, and the excess animals are utilized (for food) vs. a wasted critter dying from starvation during the winter, THIS elk archery SNAFU is very clearly and very simply is plain old animal cruelty.

 

[wmidbrook]

I don't like it either~! I ran across a Rhino a hunt in Africa on the internet a couple years back--same thing--film, dart, & let go.

 

[bzzboyz]

You know, the mightier than thou attitude in here is getting to be a regular accurance of late. Why is it that we are always so quick to condemn others on something we know nothing about. Has anyone in here done any research on this. States have been tranquilizing animals for years for tagging, testing and research. Where's the outrage for that.

I do not know everything about this mans operation, but I have spoken with him. I don't think that we as a group of hunters will influence his operation like we may have with the Live-Shot.com issue. He is a tough old bird from what I could tell and he has been doing this for a few years now. He has been an outfitter of traditional hunting for many, many years and he feels that this is a way to preserve the herds and the true trophy animals and provide an alternative form of hunting. And like it or not their are people who trophy hunt. No animal is taken down more than once every 5 years. Every precaution possible is taken to insure the well being of the animal. He has to, it's how he makes his living. I will try to find the info I got from him at the show and post more details later.

If State Game Commissions, who are there for the well being of the animal and the conservation aspect of the sport, say I'ts OK then it's OK by me. After all thats their job. Mine is not, so I will have to trust thier decisions on the issue.

As far as catch and release go's I am of the same opinion as most of you. I practice catch a release when it is stated so in the law. Such as slot limits or bag limits. But again I am trusting my states regulations to steer me in the right direction on that issue. I will not chastise those who practice it on a regular basis though.

Normally I try and stay away from controversy and try to save my serious conversation for work. But lately it seems that every topic, no matter how mundane turns into a heated debate about ethics. Respond as you will to this reply, but I just wanted to speak my mind. I will not get into a sparing match with anyone on this issue. I will post more information if I find the brochure.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Some hunters won't be satisfied until we are hunting with only our skivies and a rock.

OK, thats my serious conversation for the month. I'm wore out. Now I'm back to finding jokes to post.

 

[One Track]

I'm glad everybody has an opinion. And, I like to hear them. I think we should be quick to judge when it is our passion, and we are somewhat educated in the subject. I think this tranquilizer hunting is total bull$hit. Cutting off a bull elk's headgear? Antlers play a serious role in the natural health of a herd. They are key to establishing the heirarcy in a herd, and maximizing the breeding potential. You may as well cut off his pecker.

People are entitled to make a living and to hunt however they see fit, within the law. I just don't like it. And, it pisses me off when they refer to it as "hunting."

 

[SDHNTR]

Bunch o' crapola if you ask me. Hey FD2, thanks for including mako as Ok to realease in there. You are largely right about catch and realease with most average joe fisherman. Most of the fish probably do die. But like anything else there is a proper way to do it that ensures a high survival rate. I actually read a study that properly released, fly caught, native trout have a over 90% survival rate. Now figure your average fisherman who may only fish a couple times a year. He catches his trout after it has swallowed a Power Bait covered treble hook. The trout is only used to living in a concrete pool and only swimming a few feet at a time. It has no ability to recoup after lactic acid takes over its muscles. This is since it has never had to struggle to escape a predator or fight a river's current. In the fish world this is a couch potato, not a triathlete. The fish is netted with a harsh nylon net, splitting the tail, encouraging infection. Or it is dragged up onto a rocky bank. The hook is lodged in the gills, the angler grabs it with a dry towel (removing the protective slime coat), rips out the hook with a pair of needle nose and then tosses it 10 feet back into the lake. It swims away for a minute or so and the fisherman feels like he has done his part to conserve. He only did this so he could keep fishing after catching a limit. Now contrast this with a flyfisherman (or other artificial lure angler) who is educated on the subject. He hooks his fish with a single, barbless hook. He delicately plays the fish back and nets it with a soft cottor, or foam rubber net. He never removes it from the water and never handles it. He simply slips the hook from the fish's lip and turns the net inside out to let the fish swim away to live another day.

The same could be said for many species of fish, salt and freshwater. The principles are the same. The problem is in the lack of education on how to release fish properly. I love to eat fish. And I think that all bait caught, planted trout should be kept. They are usually vitaly hooked and lack the strength to recoup. But a properly released, wild trout, will almost certainly live to fight another day. The same can be said for saltwater fish. This is also the only way to ensure wild fish for generations to come. Sorry to contradict but I think a few distinctions needed to be made. Now is it animal cruelty? That is a whole 'nother issue I don't even want to touch. Just my

.

 

[Freedivr2]

SDHNTR, well said........no contradiction there at all, more clarification than anything. I expected to see a well thought out post on this from someone (and glad it was you in particular, you're a great sportsman bro) who is edumacated about the proper release of native trout caught in the lip with a barbless hook or fly. It's the other fishermen (as you stated, bait fishermen or guys who just don't know the proper handling methods) that make me just sick. To waste such a wonderful resource is senseless. And over the years, I've come to have a high respect for my quarry, enough to where my choice is not to catch and release, it's catch and keep (course, you know that, and being the lousy fisherman I am, that's REAL easy to abide by.......you think I'm gunna release the one trout I struggle to catch every year?). Little truth in jest, there........

 

[FEN13]

 

[Constitutionalist]

Catch and Release EQUALS

in my book.

I fish for one reason: To eat what ends up on my line.

I hunt for two reasons: The challenge of the hunt and enjoying the spoils of the conquest (or reflecting on the unsuccessful hunt).

I slaughter for one reason: To eliminate coyotes on Farmer's ranches.

Catch and release, in my life, doesn't fit in or make sense.

But hey, I could be wrong...!