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swayback

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Ten years ago the wintering deer herd in Verdi (x7b) was approximately 5000 strong! Call me absolutley crazy, but I have watched this herd get completely decimated in the past 10 years, and yes, you guessed it, Im pissed. DFG has not done a da^^ thing to protect this herd from predators, vehicular traffic, habitat alterations/ loss. We are talking migratory mulies, blacktails from the slope migrating east and west, trust me, they're getting hammered. The western migratory animals(primarily blacktails) are just about gone. WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY!!!
ACCOUNTABILITY
CA DFG has turned its face on western & eastern wintering grounds. It is an absolutley sick sense of accountability. According to some "our hands are tied" BS. This has gone on way too long, and DFG hides behind the old "mountain lion". WRONG.
MANAGEMENT
There is management, handing in timecards, better healthcare for wildlife managers, but what about the deer that make the paychecks? The paychecks must be good, because you havent done squat to help the herds!
MR DFG
This one is straight from the heart. I was born here, hunt here, travel the whole state every year(many times). You are completely deficient in your daily work. You are FIRED, you failed in every sense of the management word. Your office should protect summer/ wintering grounds as if it was
a life or death situation(IT IS)!!!!!
Come to grips DFG, hold those accountable who kill deer. CADOT, CALTRANS, UNION PACIFIC, USFS are all accountable. Find a good lawyer and create summer/ wintering grounds and safe corridors.
I SPEAK
I represent many years of hunting in CA, and as of this writing I am thru with the spineless actions of the CADFG. DFG employees are the problem, due to the fact they are not working on pushing wildlife issues. You ARE the problem in MY book!
WHATS AT STAKE
A family tradition of hunting, which includes many children, and yes, those are OUR incentives.
Mountain l;ions my a$$!

Sincererly
Steve Brott
I currently hold 4 points, yank em', Im hunting Alaska from now on!


STEVE BROTT
 



WildlifeBranch

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I understand the frustration Steve. yOf course Verdi is in NV, as is most of the east side range that those deer winter in. In fact, the new Cabela's and the developments along those hills along the I-80 corridor are, or were key deer winter ranges in NV.

A lot of the transitional range has also burned in the past 20 years as well, not to mention the busiest highway by far across the Sierra, and all the development on available private land.

We push wildlife issues every day. Rarely does it mean any other agency has to do anything to benefit wildlife. We (DFG) "own" and administer less than 1% of the deer habitat in the state on behalf of the state. You might contact Ray up there in Truckee who is (I think) still on the Nevada County Fish and Game Commission and get his perspective.

Where was the local govt. planning to preserve deer range as we advocated up there since the 1950s when the Department identified key winter and summer ranges.....?

Eric
 

snoopdogg

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Swayback, you sound...um... pissed! Apparently, from firsthand observation, you've seen the herd go downhill and it's got you a bit on the irked side...lol Totally understand, however, cut DFG just a little bit of slack. From the outside looking in--I feel your frustration, but I think in general, you're beating the sh*t out of the wrong folks.

I know a "little bit" about DFG and uderstand some of the politics/funding which influence what they can/cannot do. If it sounds like I'm defending them, I am to a certain degree. But your frustration can have a bit more influence directed at the right folks, such as the DFG commission, legislators and the overseers of the local area that's getting hammered, etc., etc.

Your broad generalization that DFG employees are the problem is just that; a broad generalization and indictment of all DFG staff. That's like me agreeing to a statement that all "hunters" are poachers, and you know damn well that's not a good or accurate statement.

Not knocking your feelings, just asking you to take a look on the other side of the coin before bashing folks.
 

Glass eye

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that F&G doesn't wield much power. The final decisions are made by County Supervisors.
Mmmmm! do we want deer habitat or a shopping mall ?
What ! shoot the does, not the poor does.
 

JNDEER

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopdogg @ Mar 28 2008, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Swayback, you sound...um... pissed! Apparently, from firsthand observation, you've seen the herd go downhill and it's got you a bit on the irked side...lol Totally understand, however, cut DFG just a little bit of slack. From the outside looking in--I feel your frustration, but I think in general, you're beating the sh*t out of the wrong folks.

I know a "little bit" about DFG and uderstand some of the politics/funding which influence what they can/cannot do. If it sounds like I'm defending them, I am to a certain degree. But your frustration can have a bit more influence directed at the right folks, such as the DFG commission, legislators and the overseers of the local area that's getting hammered, etc., etc.

Your broad generalization that DFG employees are the problem is just that; a broad generalization and indictment of all DFG staff. That's like me agreeing to a statement that all "hunters" are poachers, and you know damn well that's not a good or accurate statement.

Not knocking your feelings, just asking you to take a look on the other side of the coin before bashing folks.[/b]
i agree and well put...one thing working at state agencies, DFG, for a while....they work there butts off and a lot of them are way underpaid for the work and time they put in......also it always helps to know the facts on both sides before making final judgements, IMO.
 

Litch

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The 7B herd Winters in NV as Eric stated. The huge boom in housing in the greater Reno area has had the biggest effect on the herd IMO. Cabelas is built on the old site of the Boomtown truckstop, I really don't think it much of an effect on the herd, correct me if i am wrong. 7B Deer have seen a steep decline in recent years, I rarely see Deer on the hillsides when I go down to Reno, I used to spot quite a few.
I know for a fact the DFG has some very dedicated biologists in this region and does everything within their power to help the herds, development has really taken it's toll. Just look at all the housing that has sprouted up in Reno on prime Wintering grounds. I really can't see where all this blame lies on DFGs shoulders.
 

tmoniz

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It's not the DFG's fault. No way.
Loss of habitat and winter range to developments. Urban sprawl.
I-80 probably takes more deer than the tag holders do.
Poaching. Don't think for a minute there aren't some jerkwater boneheads out in the sticks filling their freezers when the big snows hit and the deer herds are on the move.

Alaska? Unless you are a resident the only things you can hunt as a non-resident unguided is probably black bear, deer, maybe moose and caribou.
Sway must have a big bankroll.
The cost of airfare, airborne drop camps, lodging, gear, procesing.
I know. I lived up there for 4 years. It ain't no picnic. And what you can hunt isn't just standing there waiting to be shot.
The State made Goats guided only for non-residents because too many Rookies went up there and fell off of cliffs or died from bad weather and poor equipment.
Not to mention even getting a tag for said species is an undertaking.

Complaints need to be fielded towards the Counties, The State Legislatures, and the Commissions.

Maybe the current economy, which is in the crapper, may favor the deer and other game.
 

tmoniz

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What I want to know too is where does Swayback live. NV or CA.
 

Litch

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tmoniz,
Good point on the poaching. I know for a fact that some migrant workers exploit the Deer herd. I had some workers at my house who saw Antlers in my garage and proceeded to tell me about the huge Does they shoot on camping trips in August. Needless to say they never did work for me again and I did notify the authorities. Nothing could be done because of lack of hard evidence. My opinion is that they are not the only ones doing the poaching, Truckee PD has nailed some guys from Sac in the past with Deer in the trunk of their car. Just too easy for scumbags to take advantage of the lack of Wardens, it is up to all of us to report any infractions to CalTip with as much info as we can get; vehicle description, suspect description, license plate # and what they were seen doing.
 

Buckeye duck hunter

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Swayback, I'm with you 100%. All you lawyers jump in and truly tell me what is the DFG doing and don't forget to list some credible results. Please skip the excuses.
 

JNDEER

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Buckeye duck hunter @ Mar 28 2008, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Swayback, I'm with you 100%. All you lawyers jump in and truly tell me what is the DFG doing and don't forget to list some credible results. Please skip the excuses.[/b]

for best results in answering this questions would be to ask yourself first what CAN they do as a department. Assuming F&G is the responsible agency for all wildlife activities is not accurate.
 

snoopdogg

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Buckeye duck hunter--thanks for another example of some broad statements that that don't mean anything. Thanks for...nothing?

However, since I'm Snoopdogg, Esq. here's a big ol' point that I see; Wildlifebranch said that they only administer 1%, not 100%, of deer habitat. Or is that an excuse? I got it, let me rephrase that as an ignorant statement, "DFG doesn't even manage 100% of wildlife, what kind of crap is that? Why can't they buy the land and manage it for deer. Dumb ol' Fish and Game."

There, I feel better already...
 

tmoniz

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I assume that the DFG makes recommendations to the powers that be based off their studies and analysis.
We had a previous discussion regarding funding and how it is allocated.
So. So much for that.
The DFG inforces game laws.
But, I think anyone who is lathered up over management of game species needs to turn off the rant and maybe listen
to what the folks from the DFG have to say about the matter.
They are here.
And they have been more than willing to offer up some sound clarification.

So where is Sway. He started this.
 

snoopdogg

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Thanks Tmoniz, I chuckled as I typed...cuz I'm a lawyer and all. Ha!
 

Big Moose

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snoopdogg The Fish and Game Dept. did buy some land at Bordertown and it does help the X7A herd with under the freeway access into Nevada. Don't think much can be done for X7B though. Man has encroached on most all of the winter grounds for this herd and it will most likely limit the size of the herd. It is going to get worse. This is happening all over the West and is part of the reason that we are not seeing more deer.

This did not start 10 years ago with this herd. It started back in the 60's when I80 was pushed through. Not only did it bring more people into the area but the freeway itself wiped out several migration routes. One was at the state park where they came down from the North and headed South through the park and into Cold Stream. If you see any deer in that drainage, they will have come in from the West from Mt Judah to Anderson Peak. Another route wiped out was across the flats at the new bug station and truck scales. It used to be common to see hundreds of deer migrating in groups of 20 or 30 or more after the first snow. Now you'll be lucky to see any.

My brother killed his first buck in now what's called Tahoe-Donner. It was a great place to hunt then. Now it's all houses and golf courses. Sign of the times. Going to get worse for the deer.

Sorry if I got on a rant... I could go on....

Moose
 

Buckeye duck hunter

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I still ready for someone to present something they have done with credible results. Seems pretty narrow. Look north and east for examples of how game management is suppose to happen. Snoop, for you.
1. what is happening to all the money that is spent on license fees? all spent on game management right?
2. tax money from gun and ammo sales (see #1)
3. 10,000+ tags sent out for D7- your kidding me
4. game warden at crowley lake ready to put me in cuffs until my 10 year old daughter came back from going to the restroom after he was able to count to 6 in my live well, and then scaring the sh*t out of her with 20 questions ( welcome to the sport)
5. game management by popular vote (everyone hug a mountain lion while they kill all the sheep- again, your kidding me)
6. if you don't agree with 1-5, you have never hunted in the mountains of colorado-streams of ohio-or lakes of Virginia.
 

imnrut

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Swayback: I understand your position here. When I moved up there in '99 that herd was pretty healthy. We used to shed hunt that area quite a bit. In '04 I was looking for sheds behind a gated community near the golf course. I was verbally assaulted by some rich old bag because she thought I was too close to her property. I blew her off and wandered up the hill away from her screaming. About a half hour later I looked back down the hill and see the woman standing there pointing at me with a sheriff next to her.

IMO that herd has suffered the most from DEVELOPMENT. I don't think blaming it all on DFG employees is very logical though. I-80, another factor, definitely slaughters deer especially during big winters.

When I visit nowadays I am completely blown as the housing continues to creep up the hills.
Peavine mountain (in NV) gets to be more of a eye sore every year. The south face looks like a damn motocross track instead of a winter range.

Moose is right... it's inevitable, and it will get worse. It sounds bad but I think we need some sort of population control on ourselves.

Screw the deer! I want a 3000 sq ft home right here and right now... pretty sad.
 

WildlifeBranch

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Buckeye duck hunter @ Mar 28 2008, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I still ready for someone to present something they have done with credible results. Seems pretty narrow. Look north and east for examples of how game management is suppose to happen. Snoop, for you.
1. what is happening to all the money that is spent on license fees? all spent on game management right?
2. tax money from gun and ammo sales (see #1)
3. 10,000+ tags sent out for D7- your kidding me
4. game warden at crowley lake ready to put me in cuffs until my 10 year old daughter came back from going to the restroom after he was able to count to 6 in my live well, and then scaring the sh*t out of her with 20 questions ( welcome to the sport)
5. game management by popular vote (everyone hug a mountain lion while they kill all the sheep- again, your kidding me)
6. if you don't agree with 1-5, you have never hunted in the mountains of colorado-streams of ohio-or lakes of Virginia.[/b]

tule elk.

and from the trip I was on today, the purchase of Knoxville Wildlife Area -- a very cool place loaded with deer and some great deer habitat, many turkeys, some quail, and a pig or 2....
 


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