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MY HOBBY/OBSSESION has been hunting ELK and deer for the last 38 years and in that time I seen many dozens if not at least a hunderd ELK and several hundred deer that have been shot, talked to successful hunters and helped dress out well over 50 elk and over 100 deer so while I may be no true expert I have some knowledge on this subject.
now while its true that almost any center fite rifle round can kill elk and deer under the correct circumstances there seems to be many people that want/pick the super fast flat shooting cartridges with no thought as to what bullet will work well after it hits the game, or how fast and accuratly and easily they can shoot that rifle,well Ive got to say thats looking at the situation from the wrong angle. 90% of the time youll get at the most 2 shots and even on ELK and MULE DEER that shot will be under 250 yards, at a non-ideal angle and need to be taken under less than ideal shooting conditions in less than a few seconds time, your way better off useing a rifle that has very good accuracy, deep penetration, bullets of good sectional density and one thats easy to get off a first shot with. In years of hunting Ive noticed that most hunters carrying the NEWEST SUPER ZAPPER can seldom hit a 6" paper plate at 100 yards shooting off hand and they tend to use bullets that are way too light in weight for the calliber just to get that flat trajectory, bullet speeds of over 3100fps seldom gain you any USEABLE ADVANTAGE in REAL HUNTING and BULLETS of less that .250 sectional density seldom penetrate deeply or work well, what Im basically getting at here is that your much better off learning to shoot a plain old 270 win, 30-06,338win,375h&h ETC. useing the heavier bullets for the caliber EXTREMELY WELL WITH A GOOD LOAD than spending your money on the latest super ZAPPER that spends most of its time on your shoulder and with which you cant hit anything with off hand because you can,t stand the recoil or the cost of the ammo. If you can,t keep 2 shots in a 6" paper plate at 100yards off hand or in a 2" circle shooting prone with your rifle in 6 seconds you more than likely need more practice not a new rifle! altho I for one think the magnum cartidges are fine (if you can shoot them well and if you use bullets of .250 or greater sectional density) and are not under the impression that they do anything more that allow you to push a heavier bullet to about the same speeds as the standard catridge for that caliber pushes medium weight bullets. practice and the ability to use your rifle almost without thinking about ,being sure of your target, releaseing the safety, aligning the sites and squeezeing off a perfectly aimed shot in 2-3 seconds is the key. as an example my favorite 340 mag allows me to push a 225 grn bullet about 50-75fps faster than a 338 shoots a 200grn bullet or to shoot a 250grn bullet only about the same speed or at worst 25-50 fps slower than a 338 shoots that same 200 grain bullet
Ive noticed over the years that their seems to be a large group of "hunters" that think the rifle they use makes a huge differance in there success while hunting, well they are correct as far as you need to have an efficient tool with enough range and power to get the job done. and picking a rifle that has a little extra range and power sure won,t hurt anything provided you take the time to learn how to shoot, and practice on a constant basis with that rifle until 100 yard off hand shots at a 6" paper plate are easily made,but if your not shooting at least 100 rounds a month, you most likely need more practice, but if your thinking that swapping your 30-06 for a new 300mag is going to greatly help your hunting skills forget about it, the best advise I can give you is learn to think and act like a bow hunter,learn where the prey is likely to be, how to use the wind and cover in your favor,learn to move so that your almost always in cover, and move silently, almost never in the open, learn to get close to the target and realize that its the first shot that is likely to be your only shot! I used to hunt with a guy thats now in his 80s and he put it this way "pretend the ELK has a gun also,and if he sees you first your going to be the one getting shot" always use cover, wind and your suposedly superior brain to place you in a good shooting position within easy range and with the practice and skill to get your elk with the first shot, wandering aimlessly in the woods with a rifle that can shoot 600yards operated by someone who can,t hit anything over 50yards from a standing or sitting or prone position is a total waste of time! use contour terrain maps to locate natural funnels or bottle necks, wallows,impassable cliffs ETC. in the mountains to increase your chances of seeing and getting close too elk
btw look here
http://www.turkeyhuntingsecrets.com/store/...amo-3d-leaf.htm
http://www.ghillie.com/
http://www.d2camo.com/gunghillie.html
http://www.camohunter.com/underbrushleafy.html
this works great in heavy cover to break up your outline and allow you to get closer for that perfect shot, good camo and the ability to shoot from a standing and sitting position plus a hard hitting rifle and knowledge of how to use the wind, terrain and cover to your advantage helps a great deal! most of the sucsessful hunters I hunt with get in close for precise shot placement and use 200grn or heavier bullets of 30cal or larger for almost instant elk kills, and the new charcoal lined suits that help control sent help also. (hunter orange sucks in my opinion but if your stuck useing it at least stay in the shade as much as you can to keep the glare lower and add a few of the pin-on camo leaves to break-up your outline and use a camo face mask to help hide your face, and camo your rifle stock and barrel to prevent sun/glint flashes , ELK pick up on movement faster than color so keep to cover and move slowly in shade anytime you can! and if you don,t know it bye now a sling is not something you use to hang that rifle on your shoulder, its a tool for keeping a rock solid hold on a distant target, find some old geezer to show you how its used if you don,t know how!
(Edited by 340mag at 12:36 pm on June 18, 2002)
MY HOBBY/OBSSESION has been hunting ELK and deer for the last 38 years and in that time I seen many dozens if not at least a hunderd ELK and several hundred deer that have been shot, talked to successful hunters and helped dress out well over 50 elk and over 100 deer so while I may be no true expert I have some knowledge on this subject.
now while its true that almost any center fite rifle round can kill elk and deer under the correct circumstances there seems to be many people that want/pick the super fast flat shooting cartridges with no thought as to what bullet will work well after it hits the game, or how fast and accuratly and easily they can shoot that rifle,well Ive got to say thats looking at the situation from the wrong angle. 90% of the time youll get at the most 2 shots and even on ELK and MULE DEER that shot will be under 250 yards, at a non-ideal angle and need to be taken under less than ideal shooting conditions in less than a few seconds time, your way better off useing a rifle that has very good accuracy, deep penetration, bullets of good sectional density and one thats easy to get off a first shot with. In years of hunting Ive noticed that most hunters carrying the NEWEST SUPER ZAPPER can seldom hit a 6" paper plate at 100 yards shooting off hand and they tend to use bullets that are way too light in weight for the calliber just to get that flat trajectory, bullet speeds of over 3100fps seldom gain you any USEABLE ADVANTAGE in REAL HUNTING and BULLETS of less that .250 sectional density seldom penetrate deeply or work well, what Im basically getting at here is that your much better off learning to shoot a plain old 270 win, 30-06,338win,375h&h ETC. useing the heavier bullets for the caliber EXTREMELY WELL WITH A GOOD LOAD than spending your money on the latest super ZAPPER that spends most of its time on your shoulder and with which you cant hit anything with off hand because you can,t stand the recoil or the cost of the ammo. If you can,t keep 2 shots in a 6" paper plate at 100yards off hand or in a 2" circle shooting prone with your rifle in 6 seconds you more than likely need more practice not a new rifle! altho I for one think the magnum cartidges are fine (if you can shoot them well and if you use bullets of .250 or greater sectional density) and are not under the impression that they do anything more that allow you to push a heavier bullet to about the same speeds as the standard catridge for that caliber pushes medium weight bullets. practice and the ability to use your rifle almost without thinking about ,being sure of your target, releaseing the safety, aligning the sites and squeezeing off a perfectly aimed shot in 2-3 seconds is the key. as an example my favorite 340 mag allows me to push a 225 grn bullet about 50-75fps faster than a 338 shoots a 200grn bullet or to shoot a 250grn bullet only about the same speed or at worst 25-50 fps slower than a 338 shoots that same 200 grain bullet
Ive noticed over the years that their seems to be a large group of "hunters" that think the rifle they use makes a huge differance in there success while hunting, well they are correct as far as you need to have an efficient tool with enough range and power to get the job done. and picking a rifle that has a little extra range and power sure won,t hurt anything provided you take the time to learn how to shoot, and practice on a constant basis with that rifle until 100 yard off hand shots at a 6" paper plate are easily made,but if your not shooting at least 100 rounds a month, you most likely need more practice, but if your thinking that swapping your 30-06 for a new 300mag is going to greatly help your hunting skills forget about it, the best advise I can give you is learn to think and act like a bow hunter,learn where the prey is likely to be, how to use the wind and cover in your favor,learn to move so that your almost always in cover, and move silently, almost never in the open, learn to get close to the target and realize that its the first shot that is likely to be your only shot! I used to hunt with a guy thats now in his 80s and he put it this way "pretend the ELK has a gun also,and if he sees you first your going to be the one getting shot" always use cover, wind and your suposedly superior brain to place you in a good shooting position within easy range and with the practice and skill to get your elk with the first shot, wandering aimlessly in the woods with a rifle that can shoot 600yards operated by someone who can,t hit anything over 50yards from a standing or sitting or prone position is a total waste of time! use contour terrain maps to locate natural funnels or bottle necks, wallows,impassable cliffs ETC. in the mountains to increase your chances of seeing and getting close too elk
btw look here
http://www.turkeyhuntingsecrets.com/store/...amo-3d-leaf.htm
http://www.ghillie.com/
http://www.d2camo.com/gunghillie.html
http://www.camohunter.com/underbrushleafy.html
this works great in heavy cover to break up your outline and allow you to get closer for that perfect shot, good camo and the ability to shoot from a standing and sitting position plus a hard hitting rifle and knowledge of how to use the wind, terrain and cover to your advantage helps a great deal! most of the sucsessful hunters I hunt with get in close for precise shot placement and use 200grn or heavier bullets of 30cal or larger for almost instant elk kills, and the new charcoal lined suits that help control sent help also. (hunter orange sucks in my opinion but if your stuck useing it at least stay in the shade as much as you can to keep the glare lower and add a few of the pin-on camo leaves to break-up your outline and use a camo face mask to help hide your face, and camo your rifle stock and barrel to prevent sun/glint flashes , ELK pick up on movement faster than color so keep to cover and move slowly in shade anytime you can! and if you don,t know it bye now a sling is not something you use to hang that rifle on your shoulder, its a tool for keeping a rock solid hold on a distant target, find some old geezer to show you how its used if you don,t know how!
(Edited by 340mag at 12:36 pm on June 18, 2002)
