Endangered California condors turning up with lead poisoning




Speckmisser

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This should be interesting.

How long would it take for symptoms of lead poisoning to show? Tejon has been lead-free for EVERYTHING since the first of January.

I smell something fishy here. The lead ban is about to take effect and obviously hasn't put a stop to hunting, Tejon is under pressure for their development plans... I don't know who's at it, but someone is up to something.
 

Marty

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If you note the authors' last printed article (Tejon Ranch Asks Consultant Not To Criticize Project - Noaki Schwartz), it becomes apparent that there is ill-intent, first and foremost, toward Tejon Ranch, and then toward hunting.

As per the typical liberal bias (yellow journalism), the title of the article belies the text.

If you read the article, you may note the reference to "the line in the sand." Noting that the liberal consultants refuse to consider fact and science over their own emotions. While development may not be warranted, their credibility is tainted more by the lack of substantiating fact.

So there were 300 condors (released and existing) in the wild, and only 200 exist now; 60 of which are in Southern California. Then maybe efforts should to preserve the species should be moved to a more profitable environment. Setting up feeding stations for the condors is only hampering their survivability in CA. Perhaps feeding stations were the real reason that one condor was killed by a mountain lion a few months back.
 

easymoney

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"I smell something fishy here. The lead ban is about to take effect and obviously hasn't put a stop to hunting, Tejon is under pressure for their development plans... I don't know who's at it, but someone is up to something. "
Mr misser, you are on to em... Very interesting...
I smell the same stink and it is not coming from rotting condor carcasses...
The condors were just their first step and they have no intention of stopping.
 

ooja

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So what happens if the ban is in effect for a year or more and there are still leaded condors showing up? Who becomes next on the list? Will we be able to get the lead back?

That writer should check his facts, there is a lot of LPNF around Piru that does allow hunting, Tejon is not the only area allowing hunting of the areas the article mentioned, and not the only source of lead. There is a lot of NF in Condor range, all of it could be a source of lead...or it could be coming from some other source. It is hard for me to believe that the birds are dying from eating criters filled with bullets--just doesn't seem like there would be that many critters with bullets left to rot in them in the forest for the birds to eat.

There are other birds and animals that eat carrion, are they filled with lead? What about varmints? Bears, coyotes, etc, why not take a few samples? Why is this called a California Condor lead ban instead of a Wildlife lead ban? It is only happening to Condors? (I have a funny feeling it is, I doubt they would pass a law without doing some research) so are other animals getting lead in them? This just doesn't sound right to me.
 

Coues

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maybe they are eating toys made in china?
 

grtwythunter

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Funny..........the only big game season open right now is hogs, the majority of which are being killed on Tejon which has been lead free for 6+ months. NOW the lead poisoning is getting worse????????? Somebody needs to find the biologist with the hypodermic full of lead or the jack@$$ that's lacing the feeder cattle with lead.

On top of that, Tejon is going to ban hunting for 30 days........That's going to make the Explorer Pass guys real happy. What about the archery only POR this month. And for what reason? They're already lead free. Shouldn't even be an issue. In the past I've been pretty quick to defend Tejon but I'm starting to think they're just as nuts as the condor weenies.

What a joke!!!!!!!!!!

Scott
 

Speckmisser

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Tejon is bent over a barrel and their collective butt is in the air. They started giving in, and now they're at the mercy of their enemies. The enviros who got "paid off" in the development agreement seemed satisfied, but who says they're not willing to ask for more. The enviros who didn't get what they wanted still have a huge axe to grind.

Now the Ranch folks are gonna trip over their own feet trying to keep folks from upsetting the apple cart, so to speak, and further delaying the development plan. They're screwed.

The bright side, if there is one, is that the development probably will be delayed like this for a long time. The downside is if the Ranch keeps overreacting, they may not let us hunt any more.
 

pbrdog

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
So what happens if the ban is in effect for a year or more and there are still leaded condors showing up? Who becomes next on the list? Will we be able to get the lead back?[/b]
Once they take something away from you, you will never get it back.
 

betelgeuse

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I didn't join this year for the first time in 6 years.

I knew that there was going to be problems last year when I saw some acorn eaters driving around in a Toyota Prius with clipboards during deer season.
 

hifi55

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WTH?!?!?

This makes me livid. Tejon has banned lead ammo for 6 months and they are doing an outstanding job at enforcing the ban. They took a big hit in their hunting revenue to take this on and should be commended for what they are doing, even despite the fact that there is absolutely no proof that hunting with lead ammo is the source of the lead poisoning problem in the first place. Sure, they have business concerns riding on their public action (or lack of action), so as any good business they are going to do what is necessary to reach their business goals (development). If that means banning lead, so be it. The condor supportors win.

Now this new incident, and perhaps the first testing and analysis of the effect of the ban, shows that lead poisoning cases are increasing, and immediately they cite the ONE place that has eliminated lead ammo as the probable source, since its the only area looked at that allows hunting.

I'm sorry but that just doesn't add up. This is indeed smells as fishy as low tide at the pier.

As far as I'm concerned, this is direct proof that lead ammunition is NOT the source of the problem. But we all knew that already. Instead, we are obviously dealing with inconsistent testing methods and a bunch of spin by politicians and businesses with money at stake. Again, we knew that already.. so why am I upset? Its just another day in paradise, same ol' BS.

Why are we so concerned with the condor in the first place? Because the public believes that we are to blame? Poisoning the beloved vulture into extinction? Since when did we start caring? Its just another species selected by nature for extinction (even if human habitat expansion is to blame)... it is certainly not the first and won't be the last. I guess the condor is just a convenient underdog to help play the political game, and everyone loves an underdog.

Is it true Tejon is stopping hunts for the next 30 days? That would just be icing on the cake... emergency cancellation of all hunts, especially those archery ones... we all know how toxic those aluminum and steel broadheads are to the condors!

Friggen amazing.
 

hatchet1

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that 30 days might give" the condor" enough time to recover from his illness...


30,60,90,120,360... indefinitly. i dont think its the vultures that are on these peoples minds, if i
was a bettin man, i,d say um... THE MONEY
what a bummer...
 

myfriendis410

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There is something going on that we aren't privy to. We will probably never find out as careers are staked on this issue. Face it: you hunter's are bad people and nothing good can come out of the barrel of a gun. You are one step up from a child molester (some would say one step below). There is no way that hunters are going to win on this and it is foolish to think otherwise.
 

spectr17

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Then dern acorn eaters agin


Sabba-toogie as Curly would say
 

Rancho Loco

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People are still hunting with lead on Tejon... You would be a fool to believe otherwise no matter what Tejon is doing at check-in. And ranchers and sheep herders and farmers all along the Central Coast have thousands of rounds of lead in their safes, sheds, trucks, and trailers, and won't stop shooting them. And some hunters are too hard headed to change no matter what. And just wait 'til a bird gets a case of high speed poisoning out of frustration.

The entire situation is entirely FUpped for everyone involved. They can ban hunting all together and condors will still get lead poisoning because of all the ranchers and farmers shooting pigs and varmints and leaving them lay.

My gawd everyone really fornicated themselves into a corner on this one. See ya in Montana.
 

hifi55

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jun 4 2008, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
People are still hunting with lead on Tejon... You would be a fool to believe otherwise no matter what Tejon is doing at check-in.[/b]
Not going to dispute that, but they've obviously reduced the amount of lead being shot, don't you think? By how much? Probably quite a bit. Yet still an increase in poisoning according to the "experts".

If lead ammo was indeed causing the condor poisoning problem, then the only thing that makes sense to me is that in preparation of the July 1 ban everyone is shooting their stockpile of lead to get rid of as much as possible, and this is causing it. But an INCREASE in lead ammo use is not happening at Tejon.

I guess this is just another step along the way towards losing our freedom. Next, lead ammo manufacture and import ban in California, next, same for the rest of the country. We know that's going to come eventually. When lead is still poisoning those ugly birds after 10 years of this BS, and the condors finally go extinct, we will be back to square one but we'll be without lead (and lots of other things) and will never get them back.
 

jdp080563

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It seems all the experts forget lead is a naturally occurring ore that is found just about every where.It is in the plants that herbavors eat therefore it is absorbed into the animal. So when the condor eats the animal it gets the lead.
 

Live2hunt

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
The birds started turning up sick about a month ago during random trappings at Bitter Creek National Wildlife Refuge in the southwestern San Joaquin Valley foothills of Kern County.[/b]

That right there sounds very suspicious to me. Sounds like birds were healthy up til the time they were trapped. Heck if they gobbled up lead toxic in the wild, then they would have been sick or dead before they were trapped, instead they started turning up sick after they were trapped? Sounds to me like someone is physically shoving lead down the birds' throats after being captured.




L2H
 

Speckmisser

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Everybody hunted with lead for years before the ban, but suddenly SEVEN birds come up with lead poisoning, all at once... six months after lead was banned from the Ranch?

On top of all that, as someone else mentioned, there is a ton of hunting and depredation (legal and otherwise) going on outside of Tejon Ranch.

The point of my anger, or at least the biggest part of it, is that the report somehow tries to pinpoint Tejon Ranch as the source of the lead. The whole thing (the article and "accusations") smacks of dirty pool. The credibility level on this is really low for me, and I think of myself as a pretty even-keeled news consumer.
 

Rancho Loco

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One of the articles recently pointed out that half of the Condor population in Californis was within the Tejon Ranch lands just before the agreement. Those birds are there for a reason. And we all know Tejon has been packing the hunters on like there's no tomorrow.

Does anyone else look at the new requirement to bury gutpiles with suspicion? I know it raised my eyebrow.

As for knowing where the Condors picked up lead, those birds have GPS trackers on their wings which allow mapping of movement. If they're hanging on ranch land and get lead, you can do the math.
 

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