Florida Alert: Your Personal Protection Could Mean Your Unemployment

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Last week, I urged you to support SB 1130, the "Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008." I understand that the Senate has now adopted the House version of the bill, HB 503, and it will come up for a final vote next week. I wanted to share with you a real-world example of why this law is needed.In my practice as an attorney in Orlando, I received a call yesterday from a 61 year old woman, who was in tears. She had just been suspended from her job. Her employer, an insurance agency, advised her that they were made aware that she had a concealed weapon or firearm license and she kept a firearm locked in her vehicle for self-protection. This was unacceptable to her employer and she was sent home. She was told that she could only return to work if she would write and sign a pledge that she would never again have a firearm locked in her vehicle at any time she was at the office or away from the office on company business.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3780
 

Caninelaw

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...and the ACLU lawyers are fighting each other tooth and nail to see who gets to represent her on this one I suppose?
 

chuckslayer

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You can be sure the ACLU will be "Johnny on the spot" in fighting this very egregious breach of the Bill of Rights....

Yeah right;...if you believe that one, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska I'd like to sell you !
 

Common Sense

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My employer won't let me have a firearm on me or in my vehicle on their property. I have the right to leave them if I chose. But even though I don't agree with them; this is America and they have rights too.

I have a right to walk down Main Street in a pair of Speedos, but that doesn't mean my employer has to let me dress like that at work.

I have a right to wear a button that says "President Bush is dumb and ugly.", but my employer has the right to tell me not to wear it while I am on the clock.

The Second Admendment says the "government" shall not infringe, but dosen't say anything about employers infringing.
 

masonjarlid

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Well at least here in Florida our goverment is going to make it legal to keep our guns in our vehicle at our place of employment.

Say you have a conceal carry permit, but you are not allowed to have in in the work place, why should you not be allowed to leave in in "your" vehicle? What if it a public access parking lot? Why not then? What if it's a common parking lot with numerous employers operating out of the same area? Yes in the actual work place your employer has the right to say no guns, but in a public access parking lot or a common lot no they do not. A private gated and locked parking lot for employees only maybe different.

What if you have a job that allows time for hunting before or after work? Should you not be allowed to bring your guns with you in "your" vehicle?

Yes the lot may be the employers property but my vehicle is my property and as such I should be able to have in it what I want. Give me a company vehicle and then they can tell me what I can have in it.
 

Caninelaw

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (masonjarlid @ Apr 8 2008, 06:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Well at least here in Florida our goverment is going to make it legal to keep our guns in our vehicle at our place of employment.

Say you have a conceal carry permit, but you are not allowed to have in in the work place, why should you not be allowed to leave in in "your" vehicle? What if it a public access parking lot? Why not then? What if it's a common parking lot with numerous employers operating out of the same area? Yes in the actual work place your employer has the right to say no guns, but in a public access parking lot or a common lot no they do not. A private gated and locked parking lot for employees only maybe different.

What if you have a job that allows time for hunting before or after work? Should you not be allowed to bring your guns with you in "your" vehicle?

Yes the lot may be the employers property but my vehicle is my property and as such I should be able to have in it what I want. Give me a company vehicle and then they can tell me what I can have in it.[/b]
Just what I was thinking. The article doesn't say she was even parking in a company lot. Maybe she was parking in the pay lot down the block or something. Or, if she wasn't, that might be a solution for her, just quit parking on the company lot and park around the corner at the pay lot. I don't think her employer would have a leg to stand on then.
 

Common Sense

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Caninelaw @ Apr 8 2008, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
just quit parking on the company lot and park around the corner at the pay lot. I don't think her employer would have a leg to stand on then.[/b]
Bingo!
 

pbrdog

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Do they conduct vehicle searches? Definitely do on military installations, but otherwise, how would they even know?
 

chuckslayer

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Think about this one;
You definitely cannot have a gun in your vehicle if you are employed at a school and the parking lot is less than 1,000 ft
from the school. The place to work where it might be most needed and do the most good.
Remember that gal in the mega-church that put the shooter down ? Oh yes, she didn't kill him, he killed himself after she made it impossible for him to continue. How many would he have shot if he hadn't been stopped ?
 

Common Sense

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pbrdog @ Apr 8 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Do they conduct vehicle searches? Definitely do on military installations, but otherwise, how would they even know?[/b]

Because you brag to your co-workers about "packing".
 

chuam

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Common Sense @ Apr 7 2008, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
My employer won't let me have a firearm on me or in my vehicle on their property. I have the right to leave them if I chose. But even though I don't agree with them; this is America and they have rights too.

I have a right to walk down Main Street in a pair of Speedos, but that doesn't mean my employer has to let me dress like that at work.

I have a right to wear a button that says "President Bush is dumb and ugly.", but my employer has the right to tell me not to wear it while I am on the clock.

The Second Admendment says the "government" shall not infringe, but dosen't say anything about employers infringing.[/b]
I have to agree with CS on this one.

It is an interesting conflict of interests, if the bill passes it takes away the rights of property owners and gives them to the “public” at large. If passed, the government has dictated (via NRA Lobby) to the property owner that the property owner must allow legally “armed” employees on to their property.

Being both a gun owner and a property owner, I would prefer that my property rights trump a third party's right to carry a gun. If the employee does not like the “rule” get a new job. First eminent domain now this, soon property owners will have no rights at all.

Why is the woman telling people she has a concealed weapon permit and a gun in her car. No one should know whether you have a weapon in the car or a concealed carry permit, except a law enforcement officer during a stop.

For the others the ACLU doesn't take up 2nd amendment cases. The NRA does a good job of covering that one.
 

upperEA

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
For the others the ACLU doesn't take up 2nd amendment cases. The NRA does a good job of covering that one[/b]
There are plenty of organizations that "cover" many of our amendments, however that has never stoped the ACLU from sticking their nose into it.
 

chuckslayer

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upperEA;
You've got ACLU pegged ! There are organizations looking out for the first amendment, but the ACLU defends pornographers and sues Christians ..freedom of speech and freedom of religion are both guaranteed by the 1st amendment !
The ACLU is very "eclectic" in what "rights" it defends..

I find it intriguing to hear a hunter/gunowner..give credit to the ACLU and condemn efforts by the NRA ...and both in the same posting !
 

chuam

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuckslayer @ Apr 8 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
upperEA;
You've got ACLU pegged ! There are organizations looking out for the first amendment, but the ACLU defends pornographers and sues Christians ..freedom of speech and freedom of religion are both guaranteed by the 1st amendment !
The ACLU is very "eclectic" in what "rights" it defends..

I find it intriguing to hear a hunter/gunowner..give credit to the ACLU and condemn efforts by the NRA ...and both in the same posting ![/b]
Why not check out this website and see that the ACLU actually defends christians free speech also.

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/

You might also want to read this article:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
The ACLU Is Not Evil

I would like to say a word in defense of the American Civil Liberties Union. Christians—including me, both in the pages of CT and elsewhere—often criticize the ACLU for advocating separation of church and state in ways that seem less grounded in the Constitution and in history than in an ideological desire for a religion-free public arena. On the other hand, I shudder when fellow Christians blithely dismiss the organization as fundamentally biased against them. Some call it the Anti-Christian Liberals Union or the Anti-Christian Litigation Unit. There are other, less friendly acronyms as well. I think the ACLU is wrong to oppose religious expression in the public square, but being wrong is not the same as being evil.

More to the point, the ACLU is often right about the First Amendment's free exercise clause, taking on fights that others refuse. It might surprise some critics that the ACLU defends the free speech and free exercise rights of, well, Christians.[/b]
Christianity Today



Since you guys are derailing the thread about individual 2nd amendment rights vs. property owners rights why don't we try to get back on topic....
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuam @ Apr 8 2008, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Being both a gun owner and a property owner, I would prefer that my property rights trump a third party's right to carry a gun. If the employee does not like the “rule” get a new job. First eminent domain now this, soon property owners will have no rights at all.[/b]
Pretty much I agree with Chaum and Common Sense. There are no individual rights without property rights. No employee has a right to employment. On those same grounds you are using should an employer be able to discriminate based on race or sexual orientation?
 

chuam

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rcrosby @ Apr 8 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuam @ Apr 8 2008, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Being both a gun owner and a property owner, I would prefer that my property rights trump a third party's right to carry a gun. If the employee does not like the “rule” get a new job. First eminent domain now this, soon property owners will have no rights at all.[/b]
Pretty much I agree with Chaum and Common Sense. There are no individual rights without property rights. No employee has a right to employment. On those same grounds you are using should an employer be able to discriminate based on race or sexual orientation?
[/b][/quote]

Nope, race or sexual orientation is not a choice. Bringing a gun to work is.
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuam @ Apr 8 2008, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Nope, race or sexual orientation is not a choice. Bringing a gun to work is.[/b]

Thought it was a property right issue? Is the issue for you firearms or property rights?
 

chuam

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rcrosby @ Apr 8 2008, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuam @ Apr 8 2008, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope, race or sexual orientation is not a choice. Bringing a gun to work is.[/b]

Thought it was a property right issue? Is the issue for you firearms or property rights?
[/b][/quote]

In response to your previous question bringing a gun to work is the correct analogy.

If you want to talk property rights then I think we are at a completely different issue when it comes to race and sexuality.
 

rcrosby

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chuam @ Apr 8 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If you want to talk property rights then I think we are at a completely different issue when it comes to race and sexuality.[/b]
No it's not. You support a business owner's right to not employee someone for bringing a gun to work. You see the Florida bill as a property right issue because it infringes on the property right of the business owner. I agree with you. I know from other post like the one a while back on the private school not allowing a woman ref you weren't quite so supportive of property rights. If you are so quick to fall on property rights on this issue why don't you support property rights on other issues. The reason is that you don't care at all about property rights except when it comes to a liberal agenda.
 

Common Sense

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rcrosby @ Apr 8 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
On those same grounds you are using should an employer be able to discriminate based on race or sexual orientation?[/b]

I don't think employer's should, but I do think they should have the right to do so.
 


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