HELP Before I go BROKE

doublebeard

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Hey fellows I need help bad before my wife runs me off and I get kicked out of wal-mart the radio shack worker are starting to laugh when I come through the door. I have tried to build a game cam
here is the problem I hooked a 5vdc relay to the mainstay board like instructions said and it would stick half closed with power on board my relay leds #2 and #4 would ohm to a #like this 564 with no power it would still ohm about the same but on leads #1 and #3 I got a voltage like 7.64 when motion sensor is activated
so I went back to radio shack and got a 12 vdc reed relay hooked it up and it worked ok until i decided to hook a small light to it to see if it would trigger the light on it worked fine
so I hooked it to a camera but I beleave I hooked it backward and now the 12vdc is doing the same as the first but you can take either relay the 5vdc or 12 vdc and hook to the #1 and #3 pins to the battery and check the ohms and you get a normal reading 000 and unhook the battery and you get no ohms
can anyone help me PLEASE
THANKS
Backwoods
 

Passthru

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Doublebeard,
 I really wish I knew how to help you,most of the guys are out hunting at the moment so be patient.
 This is how i modified my regent/mainstay,I fallowed instructions to the letter and it works fine.But I used the 9vdc relay,it looks just like the 24v relay that you take out,outside of this i dont know what to tell you,im no electronics whiz Sorry

http://www.jesseshuntingpage.com/regent-ms20.html

 The wireing to the toggles and LED i copied from the RS 49-425 color drawing.
 Im sure that when the electronic guru's come out of the woods they will be able to set you right.
 

upnorthunter

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When you said that you hook it up backwards, you were talking about the camera?  You can't hook them up backwards, it doesn't matter that is just a dry contact for the pushbutton.  Pins 1 and 3 are your coil for the relay.  You should have power on them when you activate the motion sensor.  Also, you should get 0 ohms between 2 and 4 when there is power on the relay and it should be open when there is a loss in power on 1 and 3.  Which pins did you hook the light too?  My guess would be that if it is hooked up right and the power is on 1 and 3 and pins 2 and 4 go to the camera, that you have it wire wrong in the camera.  The power going through pins 2 and 4 comes from the camera.  I am not exactly sure what the voltage is, because my cam is in the woods.  Like I said earlier, if you put power on 1 and 3 and pins 2 and 4 read zero ohms, then the relay is working corectly.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.
 

doublebeard

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I put power on pins 1 and 3 and connected pins 2 and 4 to a test light with no power I was getting ohm reading of 564 or something like that on pins 2 and 4 and with power on I got same reading
I could unhook the relay from board and hook pin 1and 3 to battery and 2 and 4 to ohm meter and it would ohm to 000 and unhook battery and relay would open
but if I hook to board it would go crazy again
I have a led light hooked to the board pin 14 and ground when I power the board the light comes on for few seconds and go's out a hand movement over sensor makes led light come on
so the sensor must be working right
Its just when I hook a test light to the relay coil pins
to board holes 1 & 3  and relay pins 2 & 4 to battery and test light nothing works and I get those crazy ohm readings

Thanks
Doublebeard
 

upnorthunter

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The 564 ohms that you got was reading through the filament in the lamp.  That is why the resistance didn't change.  I personally have the radio shack board so I am not sure what the pin numbers are.  But read the voltage across pin 1 and 3 with the sensor activated and you should voltage.  It sounds like you aren't getting any power out.  The relay isn't closing.  If you read across 2 and 4 with nothing connected to them what do you get?  It should be open with no voltage to the pins 1 and 3 and closed with voltage to 1 and 3.  Oh also, do you have the 12v relay in or the 5v one in?
 

Bloodhound

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Doublebeard,  Lets see if I can help...  When sensor is triped you will get volts to LED from the I.C. pin 14 and ground...black wire of LED should go to ground and red wire of LED should go to pin 14 of I.C..... The large black and red wires from relay should go to cam.. Does not matter which just use both to make a closed circuit at cam... Refer to picture at Jesses page to hook up power to sensor it has a arrow pointing to proper placement and ground for power will go were the large white wire is on the sensor.. Kind of long winded but I tried... Use the picture and text beside it not the drawing it is harder to understand...¤¿¤
 

doublebeard

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upnorthiner I have a new relay now it is 12 vdc that will click when powered
ok this is what it is doing
Power the board and the sensor works I have voltage at the 1 and 3 pins coil on the board when sensor is actavated BUT the relay is not clicking I have no ohms on the 2 and 4 pins = nor open and common  but I can take the relay lose from board and hook to battery and the relay works fine I have constant power on # 3 pin on board it is coil positive and the # 1 pin is coil ground and I dont think it is going to ground like it should when sensor is actavated

Thanks
doublebeard
 

upnorthunter

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How many volts are on the relay?  If you only have like 7-9 volts, that isn't enough to pull in the relay.  I used a 5 volt relay for mine.  It sounds like everything else is working alright.  If you hook your relay to the camera on pins 2 and 4 and power the relay with the other battery, the camera should take a pic.
 

doublebeard

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I have 7.2 volt on the 1 and 3 pins(coil) when sensor is  actavted
but I can take the same battery and hook to the relay and it will work fine
the battery unhooked has 7.4 volts
 

upnorthunter

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Did you cut R3.  And also take a reading from 1 to 3 with the relay installed.  
 

doublebeard

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yea I cut the R-3 and checked the voltage with relay hooked up on pins 1 and 3 it is .7 or something like that with out relay connected to board board pin holes 1 and 3 voltage reading is 8.2 volts

Thanks
 

upnorthunter

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I can't for the life of me figure out why it would work directly from the batter at the same voltage as the board.  
 

doublebeard

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Me either

let me run over  what I have done to the board so far

I have bought a new ms20 board (the 3rd one)

I removed the old 24v relay
remove the ground wire
cut the R-3

added the new relay to pin 1 and 3
replaced the ground wire
put the battery + wire  and 9 volt battery hookup
put a red led light on pin 14 and ground

then when I put power on the board the led light comes on for 15 to 20 seconds
than go's out like it should
than you can wave your hand over sensor
and led light will come on
relay pins ( coil ) 1 and 3 have .7 voltage(rekay hooked to board)
and relay will not close
with relay unhooked the 1 and 3 pins (coil + coil ground ) have 8. 2 volt

I have tried 2 different boards with same result

I have tried (1) 5 vdc relay
(1) 12vdc relay
(1) 12 volt relay that will click when actavited

all 3 relays will work when hooked to same battery 8.2volt

I just beleave there must be something I have done wrong
because everything seems to work by its self

Thanks
Doublebeard
 

doublebeard

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I have .7 volts on pin 1 and 3 when the relay is hooked up
but with out the relay hooked to the board pins 1 and 3 have 8.2 volts

driving me crazy
 

upnorthunter

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for some reason your relay is drawing your voltage down.  That is why it won't activate.
 

upnorthunter

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I don't know, I personally used the radio shack sensor.  I looked at the page for the ms sensor and I can't see were you are going wrong.  Do you have the test switch on the sensor set to test?
 

doublebeard

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Hey upnorthunter guess what
I figured out the problem with the relay and board
if you remember I had appx 7.4 to 8.2 volts going to relay
Well it must have been too much voltage to the 5 vdc relay and not enough for the 12 vdc relay
I hooked up a new battery that had 9.6 volts to the board with 12 vdc relay on it  and it works fine
I can hook the 8.2 volt battery up and nothing works
my guess it was just not strong enough to run relay
board and led light even with 9.6 volt battery I have to switch off the led light to get relay to work but with light switched off the relay triggers the camera just fine
Thanks for all your input and help
 

Tinhorn

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DoubleBeard

I see you got the problem fixed by increasing the battery voltage,  others have had this same problem when using less than 12 volts.

I believe the relay coil, as you found out, draws too much current for the MS20 PIR board.  I bet it's not a REED type relay.  These draw way less current than a regular relay (also good for battery life)

Stepping up the voltage to 12v fixed the high current draw of the relay coil but if you would have used a 5v reed relay, I believe your 8volt batt would have worked ok.....

See Ya!

Tinhorn
 
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