Hunting accuracy?

[Brnsvllyjohn]

I am sure this has been discussed on here before but I thought I would ask about how you sight in your hunting rifles. When I first started hunting Jim Carmichael and I always fired 5 shot groups at the range. Not sure why we did but 5 shots seemed to be what everyone did. In the last few years I have changed to mostly 3 shot groups. With the price of some of the premium loads and the recoil of the magnum calibers 3 shots makes since to me. I really try to pay attention to the first shot from a cold barrel. In a hunting situation the barrel will be cold and the first shot usually counts the most. Even if you have to shoot multiple times I doubt it would be 5 very often. Some say 5 shots just gives you the confidence in your rifle and load. Maybe yes maybe no. If your first 3 are good but shot 4 or 5 isn't as good does that make you think your rifle is not accurate? Maybe you just flinched or the barrel walks a tiny bit as it heats up. Anyway 3 is what I do most of the time now. I will occasionally only fire 2 shots if I am just verifying zero after or before a planned trip.
By the way I now shoot at 200 yards at the range more than I do at 100. That is what my main gun is sighted for and I do well at 200 with it. That does give me a lot of confidence when I have really good 200 yard groups.

OK who else is old enough to know what magazine Carmichael wrote for? Looking it up on Google is cheating.

 

[BelchFire]

Like you, I fire 3 shot groups and pay particular attention to the first shot. Occasionally, I'll fire 5 shot groups when I'm working up a new load, but that's more for a tight statistical evaluation of the group rather than the POI. 3 shots give a fair triangulation and it's plenty good when you remember that you won't be firing from a benchrest in the field.

In addition to the first shot, I pay particular attention to the second shot in relationship to the POI of the first shot. If I have a barrel that walks a lot, I always consider adjusting the sights to the first shot and making a mental note of where the second shot (third, etc) is going to fall, in case I need a followup shot. However, if I have a barrel that walks that much, my primary objective will be to to sight it in and then immediately go to work to find a solution that makes for a tighter group; perhaps that's to free-float the barrel or bed the action or work on a load that doesn't walk as much. There are many factors that make for a tight shot group and a 5 shot group will show it much better than a 3 shot group. However, once you're satisfied with the grouping, 3 shots is plenty to sight the rifle and/or verify POI.

 

[Brnsvllyjohn]

Typically if I am changing loads or mounting a new scope I shoot more shots. Since I don't change things very often I am now happy just shooting the 3 shot groups in rifles that have shot to the same point of impact for years. For me I take more than 1 rifle to the range and shoot one 3 times then change rifles. I will do this a couple of times and then go home. Probably shoot less than 15 rounds total for 2-3 guns . If I want to just practice shooting I use smaller calibers.
I have been fortunate and after 50 yeas of deer hunting I can only remember 2 instances where the rifle was way off. That was years ago with lesser quality scopes. I cannot recall one of my Leupolds ever changing point of impact but I know it does happen. That is why you shoot, for practice and to verify that everything is still good.

 

[Bankrunner]

If I'm just checking my rifle before the season i'll check the scope mounts for loose screws and just shoot once, if it hits true then i'm done.
If i'm sighting in a new round or a new rifle it's one shot, clean the barrel and shoot again. I'll keep cleaning the barrel between shots until the scope is adjusted and/or i get a consistent pattern. It's time consuming but I think that gives me the 1st shot with a clean cool barrel with every shot.
To make it more of a pain in the ass, i'm meticulous about cleaning. I use a bore guide every time a cleaning rod is used. Starting with a little copper cleaner, then solvent until the green is gone and then i'll run a lightly oil coated swab and then a couple dry swabs to make sure it's a light coat.
Once the rifle is sighted in I have shot without cleaning between rounds and the second shot is right with the first. But with my rifle, the more fouling i get in the barrel the bigger my groups get.
All that work and I hope my shots are under 200 yds.

 

[Bryan Austin]

I am sure this has been discussed on here before but I thought I would ask about how you sight in your hunting rifles. When I first started hunting Jim Carmichael and I always fired 5 shot groups at the range. Not sure why we did but 5 shots seemed to be what everyone did. In the last few years I have changed to mostly 3 shot groups. With the price of some of the premium loads and the recoil of the magnum calibers 3 shots makes since to me. I really try to pay attention to the first shot from a cold barrel. In a hunting situation the barrel will be cold and the first shot usually counts the most. Even if you have to shoot multiple times I doubt it would be 5 very often. Some say 5 shots just gives you the confidence in your rifle and load. Maybe yes maybe no. If your first 3 are good but shot 4 or 5 isn't as good does that make you think your rifle is not accurate? Maybe you just flinched or the barrel walks a tiny bit as it heats up. Anyway 3 is what I do most of the time now. I will occasionally only fire 2 shots if I am just verifying zero after or before a planned trip.
By the way I now shoot at 200 yards at the range more than I do at 100. That is what my main gun is sighted for and I do well at 200 with it. That does give me a lot of confidence when I have really good 200 yard groups.

OK who else is old enough to know what magazine Carmichael wrote for? Looking it up on Google is cheating.

I actually just went shooting yesterday, but I shoot the ole high trajectory cartridges. Like you, when I shoot the 30-06 (which is seldom), I sight it in at 50 yards. It is such a good flat cartridge, it has very little trajectory at 200 yards. Thus the POA is basically the same at 50 yards as it is at 200 yards. With that, I only use three shot groups. From there I work out any issues with loads, scope or the shooter. The majority of the problems is ME!

However, with the 44-40 I shoot almost exclusively, it is a different beast. I shoot ten shot groups for the initial sight in phase, then follow up with 5 shot groups for generic placement. I can shoot a 5 shot group at 50 yards and it place 1" high. I can shoot another 5 shot group and it place 1" low. It depends on a few things that are happening.

I have been able to group 30 to 40 consecutive shots inside 4" @ 100 yards but each group is "different"....much different that at 50 yards.

The first shot is always the most important, especially when trying to put meat in the freezer. At 200 yards, my first shot is typically a few inches high than the rest. Thus I have a method to my 200 yard "zero". I set the "zero" to where the shots group above the actual POA. I can typically group 10 shots between 8" to 10" with the center of the group being about 6" to 7" higher than the POA. This means that at 200 yards, I shoot at the deer's belly and will group all ten shots at or near the vitals...all kill shots...even with the 1st shot. This is why many say the 44-40 is not effective past 100 yards. Actually it is effective between 300 and 500 yards, but retains revolver velocity and energy at 200 yards!!!

Anyhow, with the scope set for 200 yards, I have no less than 6 POAs between 25 yards and 230 yards....of which the 30-06 doesn't need!!!

I talk too much...
For high power cartridges, typically 3 shot groups
For mid-range rifle cartridges, typically 5 to 10 shot groups.

 

[ChrisAMX]

I am sure this has been discussed on here before but I thought I would ask about how you sight in your hunting rifles. When I first started hunting Jim Carmichael and I always fired 5 shot groups at the range. Not sure why we did but 5 shots seemed to be what everyone did. In the last few years I have changed to mostly 3 shot groups. With the price of some of the premium loads and the recoil of the magnum calibers 3 shots makes since to me. I really try to pay attention to the first shot from a cold barrel. In a hunting situation the barrel will be cold and the first shot usually counts the most. Even if you have to shoot multiple times I doubt it would be 5 very often. Some say 5 shots just gives you the confidence in your rifle and load. Maybe yes maybe no. If your first 3 are good but shot 4 or 5 isn't as good does that make you think your rifle is not accurate? Maybe you just flinched or the barrel walks a tiny bit as it heats up. Anyway 3 is what I do most of the time now. I will occasionally only fire 2 shots if I am just verifying zero after or before a planned trip.
By the way I now shoot at 200 yards at the range more than I do at 100. That is what my main gun is sighted for and I do well at 200 with it. That does give me a lot of confidence when I have really good 200 yard groups.

OK who else is old enough to know what magazine Carmichael wrote for? Looking it up on Google is cheating.

I recognized Carmichael's name right away. I use to subscribe to F&S, OL and SA back in the 70's...so I'll be guessing, but I'll say F&S?

 

[Farallon]

I recognized Carmichael's name right away. I use to subscribe to F&S, OL and SA back in the 70's...so I'll be guessing, but I'll say F&S?

I think OL, I could not afford SA.

Does anyone remember the magazine gun editor who did not like Black rifles for hunting? I met him at a San Mateo Show a year before he published his editorial.

 

[Brnsvllyjohn]

Outdoor Life editor Jim Zumbo. That article cost him his job.