I need some advice on rifle calibers

Bullfrog 31581

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I'm hungry for a new rifle. I have my heart set on a Remington Model 700 XCR Tactical Long Range, just because it would be darn cool to own a real sniper rifle. My favorite caliber is the .270 win. Unfortunately, this model only comes in .243, .308, and .300 Win mag. Therefore I have to choose between the .308 and the .300 Win Mag.

How does the .300 Win Mag compare to the .308? I hunt in Florida, so most of my hunting is for whitetails and smaller game. But it would be nice to also have a gun I can take out west. Is the .300 Win Mag too much gun for whitetail sized game? What is the recoil like on the .300 Win Mag? Is the .300 an accurate round? If I opt for the smaller .308, will it do the trick out west on elk sized game?
 



AZ Jim

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The rifle sounds cool, but heavy. How much does it weigh ?

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms..._long_range.asp

If you bring it out west to hunt mule deer or elk It may be difficult to haul it up and down the mountains. That being said if you find an open area and high ground and you set up and stay put it may work out well. In Florida does a rifle like that work well in dense foilage ? The .308 will work well on your whitetails, and will do the job on elk, but you will lose some effective range when compared to the .300 Win Mag. If you keep your shots inside 250 yards the 308 will work fine (and less recoil ).


AZ Jim
 

AZ Jim

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Ok it weighs 8 1/2 lbs, just saw that in the web page I posted. Add a scope and sling, and you are around 10 lbs.


AZ Jim
 

myfriendis410

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If you are a little person, a ten pound gun is a problem. If you are large and fit, ten pounds is nothing and even improves your swing on a running shot.

Comparing a .308 to a .300 win. mag. is like comparing apples to oranges. The .308 is designed around a 147 gr. bullet and will adequately shoot up to around 165 grains. In the heavier weights you will see a muzzle velocity around 2,600 fps. The .300 is made to shoot a 200 grain bullet at 3,000fps with the obvious increase in destructive energy and downrange trajectory. Yeah, it kicks more, but put a muzzle brake on it. Shoot whitetails with a different gun or a smaller bullet or loaded down to -06 levels. Try taking a 450 yard shot on an elk with a .308 and you risk a wounded animal, but is well within the killing envelope of the .300. Sure you can use a .308 for hunting out west, but I have always felt I should be prepared for the eventuality of taking a long shot at a true trophy. Nice to have it on hand when you need it.

Besides, I shoot ground squirrels out to 400 yards with mine prone and it doesn't, doesn't, doesn't make me me me flinch at all.
 

PORCH

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Recoil shouldn't be bad at all on that gun.
 

tmoniz

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The XCR is not a field gun. It's a fun gun.
Best you look at something that is easy to carry.
Out here you have to walk a lot.
 

bpnclark

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Bullfrog – I have a 300 Win and love it. If I was whitetail hunting in FL, I would not think twice about using it. A 300 is not too much gun for anything bigger than a coyote. If you want to go out west (or anywhere else in the world) you’re better off with a 300.

My 300 has a muzzle break so I can’t tell you about the recoil.
 

ironworker

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Do yourself a favor and forget about the 300 win mag.
If your hunting elk, deer, hog and even moose I would stick with a .308 You can keep a 308 ballistic out to 1000 yards if the rifle has a 26" or longer barrel. If it comes with a shorter i.e. 20" -24", a 308 is great up to 600 yards.
The 270 WSM is just a necked down 300 WSM case, these calibers kick a little more than the 308 but damn they shoot flat!
You can't go wrong with any of the above rifles, if you plan on using it a lot, the heavier rifle will help eliminate the kick. I can put 100 rounds through my 308 and my shoulder doesn't know it.


I have a FN AG3 308 sniper rifle, it weighs around 10-1/2 lbs without scope. I use a harris bipod and it's strictly for target practice only. I wouldn't hesitate to bring it on a ground squirrel shoot. It's good for 2" circles @ 600 yards.



Rich
 

barel74

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In my humble opinion, I think you get a lot more bang for your buck with the .300. It will kick harder, but in a 10lb gun, should'nt be a problem.
 

myfriendis410

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Sorry, I have to reiterate: the .308 ain't no how, no way up to the same level as the .300 win mag. I know several long time, long range target shooters (1,000 yard) and the ONLY way that a .308 can stay above 1,000 fps at 1,000 yards is to load it with a 190 + gr. match hollow point. If you are getting 2,400 fps out of that bullet at the muzzle you are doing good. A 200 grain Spitzer boat tail at 3,000 fps is just not in the same ball park!

Don't get me wrong; the .308 is a great cartridge for what it's made for: a medium range .30 caliber, between the 30-30 and the 30-06. Yeah, you can shoot an elk with it at 600 yards, but that bullet lacks the killing power to do an adequate job on the animal at that distance. Go with the win. mag. which was made for that very purpose.
 

bpnclark

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (myfriendis410 @ Apr 28 2008, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Sorry, I have to reiterate: the .308 ain't no how, no way up to the same level as the .300 win mag.[/b]
I totally agree. The 308 is the 7.62x51 military cartridge that was designed for shooting people; not elk or moose. The 300 Win Mag was designed for big body/big bone animals.

Can you kill elk and moose with a 308, absolutely. I just prefer the 300 Win Mag.
 

Speckmisser

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Good stuff here so far, and not a lot to add.

First, as to the Tactical or "sniper" rifles, they're not made for hunting applications. Sure, they're cool and all, but use the right tool for the job. Look at the standard 700 or you can go with any of a dozen other makers... but get something in a mid-weight that handles well without breaking your back or your shoulder. The super-lightweight (5 to 6 lbs) rifles can be punishing, and wouldn't be my first choice, but recoil can be tamed in a variety of ways (pads, brakes, after-market stocks, etc.).

Caliber choice... .308 is fairly versatile, and if you're primarily hunting Florida, then it's more than suitable for whitetail and even hogs. You're not likely to be doing much shooting over 200 yards, and that's where the .308 excels as a hunting round. It loses ground fast on longer shots. Until I got the .325wsm, I always carried my .308 as backup on elk and hog hunts, and felt completely confident that it would serve me well if I needed it.

The .300 WinMag is a kick-butt caliber, which explains its popularity among western hunters. It's got a great trajectory at longer ranges (much longer than most people should be shooting) and still delivers a great punch when it arrives. It doesn't beat you up as bad as some other elk/moose calibers like the .338, but it's definitely more noticeable than the 30-06 and makes the .308 feel like a pop-gun. It's way more gun than you need for southern whitetails, but they won't mind the overkill. With the right bullets and good placement, you're not going to "blow up" small deer, so don't worry about that. You might see more bloodshot meat with marginal hits, as the .300 delivers a lot of energy. Shoot 'em in the neck or behind the shoulder (not through it) and you should be OK.
 

ironworker

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I totally agree, a 308 doesn't stand up to a 300 win mag but his post said "sniper rifle", I was considering two factors, hunting thin skinned game and target shooting.
For me, that could be a whole range of calibers but I gave my opinion of the ones he posted.
As far as 308's not having enough speed; Palma shooters are keeping the 308 in the 1300-1450 fps (1000 yards) using 155 gr Lapua scenaro's. You need a longer barrel to get that kind of speed.

I hope he finds the right rig, "the one that makes him happy" will be perfect.


Rich
 

bpnclark

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullfrog 31581 @ Apr 27 2008, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
How does the .300 Win Mag compare to the .308? I hunt in Florida, so most of my hunting is for whitetails and smaller game. But it would be nice to also have a gun I can take out west. Is the .300 Win Mag too much gun for whitetail sized game? What is the recoil like on the .300 Win Mag? Is the .300 an accurate round? If I opt for the smaller .308, will it do the trick out west on elk sized game?[/b]
The smaller 308 will not perform as well as a 300 Win Mag. Good luck
 

myfriendis410

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I'm not a big fan of the short mags. That said, the .300 wsm is a mighty fine cartridge and might be the one to do dual duty in Florida and out west. I do like it for it's reloadability (is that a word?) not having a belt. You are limited to a max 180 gr. bullet, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. It is also a shorter action than the .300, which might mean something to some people.

I would recommend the Remington 700 with a laminate stock; an excellent gun and a truly adjustable trigger. The laminate stock is stable and adds weight to the rig where it's needed. Add a muzzle brake if you feel you need it, but warn a guide if you book a hunt out west.

Have fun!
 

Bullfrog 31581

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Thanks for the info guys. Its a hard decision. I've been considering a tactical rifle for the coolness factor and for accuracy. Between the two, the accuracy is the most important. I've been assuming that the best way to go would be to look for a rifle built for tactical use, as I presume they are built for accuracy. I already got lots of good deer rifles, but they are nearly all semi autos (Browning BAR Safaris). They are accurate enough at longer ranges for hitting the vitals of an animal, but they won't give me groups I could hit nickles with most loads. My hunting bolt-actions are smaller calibers and are much more accurate in terms of shot groupings at long ranges. I'd love to find a well built larger caliber bolt action that can give me tack driving groupings at least out to 200-300 yards.

If I can find super tight accuracy in a traditional hunting rifle then I'll take a .270 over anything. I do own one Remington Model 700 in .260 that I haven't shot in about four or five years. I'm a much better shot than what I used to be. It might pay for me to take it out and shoot it some. If I can get impressive groups with it I may forget about the coolness factor of a tactical rifle and get a different Model 700 in .270. The main thing I want is a quality barrel that will give me ultra tight groupings. I can live without the coolness if I can find the quality elsewhere. The only thing I know for sure is that I want a Model 700.

Weight isn't a big issue for me. I'm used to lugging the Safaris around. I just want something that has the potential to be insainly accurate.

Also, I have just been given a Browning A-bolt Medallian in .308, so that will probably take the .308 off the table. I've shot it a little and its giving me consistent 1 inch groups at 100 yards with Core-Loks. I'm gonna get some Accutips and see how it spits them out.
 

Bullfrog 31581

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Putting aside the kick or lack thereof of the .300 Win Mag, does it punch through small game too much? In other words, does the bullet zip through too fast on a smaller animal and not expand well? That is my biggest fear about getting one besides the kick.

Honestly, at this stage I'm leaning towards forgetting about the tactical and getting the caliber I really want (.270) in a different Model 700. But again, its all going to depend on the accuracy I can get.
 

Speckmisser

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I don't think you'd have a real problem with the .300winmag "zipping through animals". It'll put 'em down.

You may have a bigger issue if you like to shoot shoulders, because the energy of the .300 is pretty impressive and most of it gets delivered right into the critter.

The .270 is a great caliber, but most folks (including me) would say it's hardly ideal for an elk rifle. Great stuff for deer anywhere in the country, and fine for hogs too if you don't push the range too much.
 

barel74

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I don't think you'll have a problem making a hunting rifle into a tack driver. If you ever come out west, you will NOT want that 10lb rifle on your back. And if the .300 kicks to hard for you, try a 7mm, a little better than the .270 at long distances.
 

Bullfrog 31581

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I think I've settled on getting the .270. Its what I know and love. If I make it out west I'll pick me up something more suitable before I go.

So I definately want a .270 and it has to be in a Model 700, which takes the tacticals off the table. Of those Model 700s that come in .270, are some better than others? What about the hunting version of the XCR?
 


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