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Bald Eagle

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While I was on a trip to Denver last week I rode behind a car for a few minutes on the freeway.  There was a bumper sticker on the rear of the car that read
"ISLAAM - One of the many faces of Satan".

At first I said to myself (in an angry way) "Yeah, that's right.  I hate them all!".  During the long ride back to southern Ohio I had time to reflect on the bumper sticker and on my feelings about the message.

The redneck side of me says to go out and find one of these bumper stickers and proudly display it on the rear of my pickup.  The other side of me (I don't know what to call this side of me) says that the religion is not to blame for the terrorist attacks around the world - the individuals are.

I think ole Mr. Redneck is winning the debate inside me for now.

What are your thoughts?
 

Kickaha

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This is a trick of semantics that Muslims and politically correct individuals are using to avoid laying the blame on those who deserve it.

Basically, we have a need to group these people together in some fashion.  So we look for commonalties.  So what traits do these people have in common?  Arab?  Yes, but also Persian (Iranian), Indonesian, Malay, African, etc.  Heck, there’s even Jihad Johnny Walker Red.  What else?  Male?  No.  While the majority of the terrorists are male, the females hate us just as much – and are learning the lovely art of suicide bombing for themselves.  Anything else?  Religion?  Sure seems that way, doesn’t it?  We don’t seem to be having a lot of problems from any religion other than Islam.

In actuality, the problem really seems to be a group of fanatics in control of certain governments.  These people either hate the U.S., hate Israel, hate the U.S. for supporting Israel, hate any religion other than Islam, or some combination of the above.  And, since they control their governments, they control the education system, press, etc.  And because they control the education system, they can keep their people as stupid as they want.  They can, like Saudi Arabia (our best buddy), practice corporal punishment for people of another religion praying privately in their own home.  

If you look into this, you will find that these fanatics actively talk, not of peace with Israel, but of finishing what Hitler started.  And they don’t want to stop with Israel.  They actively and publicly talk about "converting" the entire U.S. to Islam.  For many of them, the U.S. is their next target for conversion.  And conversion in their eyes means you’re either a Muslim or you’re dead.  They don’t really care which.  

And I’m not spouting off hate speech here.  Unfortunately, there is ample documentation for everything I’ve stated.  

So while it’s certainly possible for a peace-loving Muslim to exist, that just doesn’t seem to be the norm.  Too many people take certain passages of the Koran too literally.  I don’t see this ever changing.

And, not only all that, but even the more friendly variety of Muslim seems to have similar leanings as the fanatics.  They’ll come on the television and assure us that not all Muslims believe in hate.  They want it to be known that they are our friends.  But, besides 9/11, have you ever heard a SINGLE Muslim condemn another for their actions?  My guess is no.  (I actually have heard ONE guy.  I think he’s dead now.)  Muslims don’t condemn other Muslims.  Period.  The worst Muslim is better than the best Christian, Jew, etc.  So they are either closet supporters of those who would like us dead, or they’re direct participants.  

Based on all that, I’d have to agree with the bumper sticker.


(Edited by Kickaha at 6:57 am on Aug. 6, 2002)
 

Dakota

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I think you only have to look as far as the Islamic Leaders comments and condemnation of the twin tower attack and the homocide bombers in Israel.  What condemnation you ask?  

Exactly, thier silence is deafening.

IMO there are very few that aren't at a minimum.... sympathizers.
 

Bald Eagle

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I have not heard of even one Muslem group coming out to condem what happened on 9/11/01.  The only comments that I have heard from the Islamic clan in America is that they don't approve of profiling.

The Nation of Islam is growing more rapidly in the black community in the USA than any other group according to the U.S. News & World Report.

Ain't it great?
 

Megadeth

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Pat Buchanan was going to put strict regs on immigration, he lost and so did America.My $.02
 

T F Coyote

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I am a little concerned here.  

I will start by saying I am a devout Protestant Christian, and I speak as one, as well as a very patriotic American.  I believe my Christianity requires that I speak up here.  And in regards to the Israel issue, I side with the Jews (God's chosen people), but I pray for peace.

Bald Eagle and Dakota,
First, don't confuse the Nation of Islam and the rest of the Islam world.  They are very different.  It's like grouping Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, and Christian Scientists together.  They share (or claim to share) the same origins, but have very different ideology.

Second, I spent the weeks following the 9/11 attacks glued to the television.  Just about every political and religious leader of Muslim nations did publicly condemn the attacks as evil and contrary to Islamic principles.  They also have condemned the ongoing violence in Israel.  True, they would like to see Israel perish, but they condemn suicide bombers as the means.  The silent few, including Sadam Hussein (who is not very religious), will soon pay the price for their silence.

Kickaha,
Your comments were very well thought out and articulated.  However, I think you overstate the sympathies of most Muslim groups.  Especially when you claim they want to convert the U.S. to Islam.  Although I would love to think that one day the whole world would embrace Christianity, this does not mean I have some agenda that involves attacking non-Christian nations in order to make them convert.  They tried that in the middle ages.  It was called the Crusades and it was one of the most un-Christian periods of Christianity.  Also, don't forget that Hitler, the KKK, David Koresh, and many other terrorists claim to act on the authority of Christ.  I would not let a non-Christian put me in the same group with them.

If you can provide documentation to the contrary, I will gladly consider it.


Now to the bumper sticker:
As a Christian I have studied the Bible and believe it is my best resource for understanding God's will.  Although I know Satan is alive and well here on Earth, I do not believe it is my place to allign him to any group, religious or otherwise (except for Satan worshippers, of course).  If, and that's a huge IF, Satan has a foothold in Islam, they will answer to God.

My faith has taught me God is mysterious, and to never second guess His will.  Be careful not to make such declarations, on your bumper or elsewhere, that you can speak for God.

Love the sinner; Hate the sin.
 

huntducks

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Kick

Well said and I agree with you 100%:toast-yellow:
 

foulshot

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In my local community there is an increasing number of "middle easterners".  I have not seen anything in the way of public condemnation from any of the local leaders.  I know people who deal with the "middle easterners" on a daily basis, and I can tell you this from personal experience that a majority of them play dumb.  I'm not saying all of them, but a majority.  The Feds tracked 2 people related to the suicide bombers back to my town, and they both claimed the same thing.  "We don't know anything about that".  I would like to see the passneger lists from all the airlines the day of 9/11 to see how may "middle eastern" names are on those lists.  Bet there won't be many if any at all.
I think that the Islam culture is being forced upon unsuspecting Americans.  I see it in public schools where they teach children Islam and yet we can't say the Pledge of Allegence unless we leave out the word "God".  This country needs to wake up in a hurry if we want to stop this infiltration of devience.
Kick, I too agree with you!

TF, there is no lukewarm, either you are with God or against Him. Revelation 3:16"So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth".  This is not said to tell you that what you have said is wrong, just like you I'm stating my interpretation of the Bible.


(Edited by foulshot at 11:29 pm on Aug. 8, 2002)
 

EL CAZADOR

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I too am a Believer and I must add my $.02    . . .

My Bible says in Matthew 12:30 that "He who is not with Me is against Me".  This is Jesus Christ's own words.

I see so many times today that fellow Believers accept other religions as acceptable and true.  This is absolutely wrong!!  We are living in a world which no longer accepts absolute truths, the line between right and wrong has been blurred and the corrupt are praised as righteous.  I must say that a lot of this stems from the spirit of "political correctness" - do not offend, do not condem, do not ask, "it's all good".

Are Muslims a peacefull people, I'd say many are.  Do they have a personal relationship with their god, no they don't.  Sure they pray five times a day, but prayer alone doesn't make you a good person, it just means you know how to talk and think, and do things over and over and over again.  It comes to a point that you don't realize what you are doing and you end up simply going through the motions.

Are the Muslims for Christ and his Believers?  No, so they must be against Him
 

T F Coyote

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I think I've been misunderstood.

I am not defending Islam as a valid religion, nor am I saying, "Can't we just all get along?"  I agree that Islam is oppositional to Christ and Christianity, and I believe that those who do not accept Christ into there lives will not be saved.  

However, being opposed to Christ is not the same as being allied with Satan, let alone, "One of the many faces of Satan."  Satan is evil, decietful, and powerful, but unlike God (and when I say "God," I mean the whole Trinity), Satan is not omnipresent.  The absence of God does not dictate the presence of Satan.

For example, my father was a very strong Christian who let his own doubts and the influence of the scientific community turn him into an atheist.  I don't deny that Satan uses these influences to confuse people and turn them away from God.  I know that, as Fullsack quoted from Matthew, my father is "against" Christ (please pray for him).  But, he is not with Satan, or any other diety.  And my father is not "One of the many faces of Satan."

I realize that this world is very close to an all-out holy war, and that nothing would please Satan more than to see us kill eachother in the name of God or Allah.  However, I do not believe that Islam is a manifestation of Satan designed to fight Christianity.  Although Islam did not start until the 7th century AD, it takes its origins from the same Bible we use.  And, Islam teaches that God is good and Satan sucks.  The problem is that a minority of Muslim leaders have wrongly accused the U.S., Israel, and Judeo-Christianity as being a manifestation of Satan.

Bottom line: I am for God and against Satan, and I believe Islam is wrong, but I don't think Islam is Satan.


Foulshot,
You're inferring that there is a huge Muslim conspiracy when you say, "I would like to see the passneger lists from all the airlines the day of 9/11 to see how may "middle eastern" names are on those lists.  Bet there won't be many if any at all."
This has already been studied by the FBI, CIA, and FAA.  There were no unusual trends that indicate that anyone other than the hijackers knew about the attacks.  Interestingly, even some of the hijackers didn't know they were on a suicide mission.  This kind of rhetoric is paranoia.

I agree that our justice system has gone awry when they ban the words "under God" and school prayer.  But, I do not mind that my children will learn about other cultures and religions in school, so long as these lessons don't try to indoctrinate them.  I agree we have battles on many fronts, and at present, we are losing some of them.  But, as any good military leader will tell you, understanding the enemy is crucial to overcoming their attacks.  In the case of our courts and schools, the enemy is Liberal Ignorance.
 

Dakota

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It is nice to see there are so many believer on  this site.  I guess that is partly what makes this such a quality board.

TF, While I can agree with your sentiment I cannot agree your observations.  I too was glued to the TV after 9/11 like the rest of the nation.  I am a bit of a political junkie and an active member of one of the parties.  Except for some mild lip service long after the attack, I did not hear the condemnation.  I would have expected an enourmous outcry.  Remember Arafat condemns homicide bombers too, do you believe him?

If Islam is a peace loving religion why is Every Single Islamic Government a murderous dictatorship?  When attacks on the U.S. and Israel happen would the general populous of an Islamic nation dance in the streets with glee and hand out candy to children if it was not the CONCENCOUS of the people?  What would the reaction have been in the US if groups of Americans had cellabrated the Oklahoma bombing?

I believe ISA 5:20 is relavant.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
 

T F Coyote

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I guess I should have posted this earlier:

Jesus said, "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.  He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

Matthew 5:44-45 (NIV)


Yes, we are at war with many evil powers.  And yes, we will protect ourselves, even if that means we need to strike first with overwhelming force.  But in our hearts, we are commanded to love.  Like a parent who is forced to discipline a child.

As to the bumper sticker: Although Satan is evil and our enemies our evil, not all of our enemies are Satan.

(Edited by T F Coyote at 10:42 am on Aug. 9, 2002)
 

Dakota

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Loving your enemies does not mean pacifisism or that disregard of rightousness.  We are commanded to love our enemies AND to give them what they need.  What they need may not be what they want.

We are also commanded to abhor evil.  I think abhor has very distinct meaning and not easily confused.

I think that the US policy reflects these commandments perfectly in Afganistan.  We bomb and kill the responsible all the while dropping food packets and sending humanitarian relief.
 

Kickaha

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Coyote,

Unfortunately, I do not overstate their intentions.  It is a fundamental tenet of Islam to convert the entire world, not just the U.S.  This is not like the similar Christian principal.  I’ll track down specifics for this, and specifics for the U.S. being their next target.  

In the meantime, I’d rather write about this than work....  :)

I too remember the "condemnations" from the Muslim leaders and nations about 9/11.  I don’t recall a single one that volunteered that viewpoint.  Usually condemnation of any terrorist act, including 9/11, has to be wrestled out of them.  And I don’t recall a single one that didn’t qualify that condemnation with, "however, ...", followed by a qualification as to why the terrorists felt the "need" to do what they did.  And I don’t recall a single one condemning the terrorists themselves, only their acts.  If you’re lucky enough to watch a broadcast where the journalist isn’t just a talking suit and asks tough questions, you can see this in EVERY interview.  They WILL NOT condemn the individuals, only the acts.  And I don’t recall a single reported Muslim demonstration in the United States against terrorism (9/11 or otherwise).

Would you believe that I used to have a completely different view of Islam?  That I believed that there were just a few fanatics and that’s it?  That I actually believed the propaganda they spew about their religion?  That religious study is an interest of mine and I was looking forward to getting to Islam?  (I’ll still get there, I just now have a very different view of the majority of its followers.)

Here’s a hypothetical situation.  Take your favorite Christian denomination.  Now lets say this group starts a little crusade of their own and goes about bombing innocent women and children and whoever in the name of their religion.  Your religion.  They’re aligning themselves with you.  They’re gaining strength by doing so because it makes their group seem larger than it really is.  I can’t imagine a single Christian denomination who would put up with that for one second.  Not only would they condemn the acts, they would condemn the individuals.  And not only that, they’d go out of their way to make sure EVERYONE knew that the fanatics were perverting their religion.  And not only that, but they’d probably join the hunt, track them down, and help tie a noose around their necks.  

You said it yourself with, "don't forget that Hitler, the KKK, David Koresh, and many other terrorists claim to act on the authority of Christ.  I would not let a non-Christian put me in the same group with them."  Yet the Muslim leaders don’t seem to mind.  When I hear them speak about 9/11, I don’t hear sincere condemnation, I hear resigned condemnation, "oh shoot, I guess we better condemn this one or else they’ll see us for who we really are".

For me there is not "Satanic evil" and "other evil".  There’s only evil.  (And good -- here and there, now and then….)  I don’t believe that God will hold out special punishment for those who got suckered by Satan.  If you’re evil, you’re evil.  If you commit evil deeds, you commit evil deeds.  I do, however, think there is something special and different about evil deeds done in the name of religion and God versus evil deeds in general.  I do think that God has a little something special in store for those who use His name as a justification for their evil deeds -- regardless of whether Satan was involved.  When the Muslim fanatics say God tells them to do these things, they diminish God in ALL religions, especially Islam.  It’s a continuous wonder that the Muslim leaders don’t see this and respond appropriately.  

So, that said, I don’t really care whether Islam is Satanic or not.  And I don’t really care what their practitioners profess.  Or whether they pray five times a day.  Or whether they say they believe in God and hate Satan.  I only care that the vast majority the followers of Islam today practice evil deeds.  Either directly or through their silence.  

This then comes down to semantics.  Define Islam.  Define Christianity.  Is Islam the Koran?  If so, then because the Koran has some questionable passages that people are currently using to justify murder, does that make the Koran evil and in turn make Islam evil?  If so, then how about Christianity, the bible, and the Crusades, as you mentioned?  Does that make Christianity evil?  Was Christianity evil in the past?  Certain Christians of the past certainly acted like certain Muslims of today.  How many different denominations of Christianity are there?  They all read the same book and interpret it a little differently.  Even within the same denomination, there are differences of opinion.  Even within the same church, there are differences of opinion.  Are they all Christian?  Except for most of the biggies, they don’t all believe the same thing.  And they ALL believe the really biggie of Christianity -- Christ as the Messiah.  But, then again, the "Christians" of the Crusades believed that too.

Would I call the individual Christians of the Crusades evil?  Yes.  Absolutely.  So should all Christians be lumped in with those of the Crusades?  Except for the killing, they’re claming the same major beliefs, after all.  While many Muslims would say yes, I think most people would say no.  And what of a Christian that stated, "While I personally am not going to go around killing Muslims myself, I agree with the Crusades and, in fact, wish they had finished the job and killed them all."  Is this person evil?  In my book, yes.  And what of the Christian who, when asked about the Crusades, won’t condemn them?  And what of the Christian group that sits silently in their church hoping for the return of the Crusades?  Are they evil?  Again, in my book, yes.  God is certainly not going to be especially pleased with them.  

And what of the Muslim group that sits silently and says nothing?  Or the leader that you have to pull and pull and pull before they’ll begrudgingly state that they "condemn the acts of 9/11, but you have to understand…"?  To me, all evil.  No question.

But, this all brings up a good point.  If the majority of Christians around the Crusades believed in what they did then, would Christianity itself be evil?  Or just all of its participants?   I think it’s the same now for Islam as it was then for Christianity.  Christianity, AS DEFINED BY THE CHRISITANS OF THE CRUSADES, was evil.  Islam, AS DEFINED BY THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY, is evil.  And they’re the only ones who can change that.
 

Kickaha

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Here are some snippets from various articles I thought people might find interesting:

From The Battle Over Islam by Larry Elder
Islamic-Christian Summit met, after the September 11th terrorist attacks—for two days in Rome. They sought to issue a joint statement of condemnation of the terrorist attacks. Nineteen Christian and a dozen Muslim delegates—members of the clergy, scholars, and theologians—assembled. But the delegates smashed into a roadblock.  The Islamic delegation agreed to condemn the terrorist attacks of September 11, but insisted on condemning Israel for its alleged "terrorism" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. George Freeman, the general secretary of the World Methodist Council, said, "The Islamic Community wanted the document to say something about Palestine, but that wasn’t something everybody could agree with." Mohammed Said Noamani of Iran’s Organization of Culture and Islamic Relations insisted, "America has contributed to many terrorist attacks in the world: Vietnam…the continuous support for Israel against the Palestinian people. For that reason, America cannot be the champion of the struggle against terrorism in the world." So the summit concluded with a watered-down statement generally condemning violence against innocents, but failing to specifically condemn the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Hours after the United States-led coalition bombing of Afghanistan began, an Arab news organization aired videotape of Osama bin Laden, a speech he apparently filmed before the airstrikes against Afghanistan. On the videotape, bin Laden never denies his involvement in the terrorist attacks, praises the terrorists, and says, "When Almighty God rendered successful a convoy of Muslims, the vanguards of Islam, He allowed them to destroy the United States. I ask God Almighty to elevate their status and grant them Paradise. He is the one who is capable to do so."  Bin Laden expects God to grant these terrorists admission into Paradise. Again, how many Arab leaders and Muslim clerics in the Arab world issued a statement denouncing bin Laden’s interpretation of the Koran as "perverse," a "sacrilege," or a "sin against Islam"?

Now before we brand the Islamic-Christian Summit a complete bust, note that the delegates did agree on one thing. They condemned Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi for his alleged "racist" remarks. Berlusconi’s crime? After the terrorist attacks, he said, "We should be conscious of the superiority of our civilization, which consists of a value system that has given people widespread prosperity in those countries that embrace it, and guarantees respect for human rights and religion. This respect certainly does not exist in the Islamic countries."

About Berlusconi’s remarks, Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, the archbishop of Milan, said, "The terrorists must be identified and disarmed, but that cannot be done if an entire culture, religion or nation is held responsible." How dare Berlusconi suggest a superiority of the West, where the people elect their representatives, and where citizens enjoy individual rights such as the freedom to worship any God, or no God? How dare he argue the inherent superiority of freedom? Who does he think he is?

In his latest videotape address, bin Laden warns America, "As for the United States, I tell it and its people these few words: I swear by Almighty God who raised the heavens without pillars that neither the United States nor he who lives in the United States will enjoy security before we can see it as reality in Palestine and before all the infidel armies leave the land of Mohammed…" The failure of Arab leaders and Muslim clerics in the Arab world to denounce Osama bin Laden as an infidel suggests two things. Either many agree with his goals, if not his tactics; or, Arab leaders fear reprisals if they condemn bin Laden. Either way, bad news.

Islam now stands at a crossroads. And the burden rests on the majority who call Islam a "religion of peace" to show us that they mean it.
 

Kickaha

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From The Washington Post, February 25, 2002
    "[One] 11th-grade textbook, for example, says one sign of the Day of Judgment will be that Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say: 'Oh Muslim, Oh servant of God, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him.' Several students of different ages, all of whom asked not to be identified, said that in Islamic studies, they are taught that it is better to shun and even to dislike Christians, Jews and Shi'ite Muslims."
    In addition, "maps of the Middle East hang on classroom walls, but Israel is missing." And the article quotes a 19-year-old American Muslim student at George Mason University: "A lot of the [Muslim] students can't make up their minds if [Osama bin Laden] is a good guy or a bad guy."
 

Kickaha

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Snippets From
Questions
Making sense of the world.

By Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power.
March 15, 2002  http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hansonprint031502.html

One of the advantages of living in relative isolation on a farm is the opportunity to ponder idle questions when there are few experts around to give the proper answers. I list in no particular order a sampling of them that arose last night while I was walking alone through the orchard — on the chance that a few other puzzled Americans have also at times been just as exasperated and confused.

Why does Mr. Mubarak lecture us to become intimately engaged in the Middle East Peace process, when Mr. Clinton, who was very recently intimately engaged, got the intifada for his efforts?

And why does Mr. Mubarak seek to advise us about our proper diplomatic role, rather than explain to us why an Egyptian masterminded the deaths of 3,000 of our citizens and others of his countrymen are top lieutenants of Mr. Bin Laden and are now killing Americans in Afghanistan?

And why, instead of warning about rising anti-Americanism in his country — itself the dividend of the virulent propaganda of his own state-run presses — does he not ponder another recent poll, one showing that 76 percent of Americans themselves have an unfavorable view of the Arab world?

Because, unlike Egypt, we are a democracy, at some point will some brave American congressman ask the dreaded question, "Why continue to give billions to Egypt where three quarters of the people do not like us — and when three quarters of the American people would prefer not to?"

Why do Middle Easterners become excited and haughty as they gloat to you that Americans are unpopular in their countries, but suddenly grow shocked, silent, and hurt when you politely and calmly explain why the feeling is becoming — and perhaps should be — mutual?

Why do so many from the Middle East come here to find freedom, security, and safety — and then criticize the country that they would never leave as they praise the country that they would never return to?

Is there a word for profiling or irrationally hating Americans? Americanophobia? Misamericany?

Why did we incur only anger from Eastern Europeans and Orthodox Christians for saving the Muslims of the former Yugoslavia from Milosevic, but no praise at all from the Islamic world itself?

If the West Bank is the linchpin of the current Middle East crisis, what were wars #1, #2, and #3 there about, when it was entirely in Arab hands?

Is there a difference between Palestinians preferring to kill Israeli civilians rather than soldiers, and Israelis preferring to kill Palestinian fighters rather than civilians?

Why are the EU and international agencies vocal about well-fed and humanely treated prisoners in Cuba, and yet said nothing when depraved comrades of these detainees recently executed an American soldier upon capture in Afghanistan, and murdered Danny Pearl?

Would the world be angry if a Jewish terrorist forced a captured Muslim to admit to his race and faith as he executed and beheaded him on film?

Is it really true, as we were warned for most of January, that prayer-mats, lamb stew, Korans, and humane treatment in Cuba ensured that al Qaeda in turn would not execute captured Americans?

If we remove the fascist regime in Iraq and help institute consensual government there, why would we need troops any longer next door in Saudi Arabia? What and from whom would we then be there to protect?

If we could not have normal relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, who both allowed neither freedom nor democracy, why and how can we maintain normal relations with the Islamic world?

If America forced Israel to give back every inch of the West Bank, if America withdrew all its troops from all Arab countries, if America increased its aid to Egypt, Palestine, and Jordan, if America sought to placate Saddam Hussein, remove all U.N. sanctions, and normalize relations with the Iraqi dictatorship, and if America sought to restore full relations with Iran without conditions, would the Muslim world really like the United States?

Has any American in any live broadcast on television ever asked a Saudi prince, the king of Jordan, the President of Egypt, or the royalty of Kuwait, whether they plan on allowing a free press or democratic government? If not, why not?

If 19 Americans incinerated 3,000 Muslims in Mecca or Medina, and blew up 20 acres in either of those cities with a two-kiloton explosion, would the Saudis or the Egyptians a few weeks later politely listen to admonitions from the American government about their incorrect Islamic policies in the Middle East?

If the Eiffel Tower had been wrecked by an al Qaeda hijacked airliner, would the French have gone into Afghanistan after the terrorists? And if so, how and why? And would they have asked our help? And would we have given it?

Why in the last decade have we seen a succession of Israeli prime ministers and opposition figures but only Mr. Arafat alone?

Why do Palestinians shoot machine-guns up into the air at funerals and Israelis do not?

Why do supporters of Israel in America rarely castigate their country for giving money to Egypt, Jordan, and Mr. Arafat, while supporters of the Palestinian authority here always damn the United States for giving commensurate aid to Israel?

Why do Middle Easterners become far more enraged at Israelis for shooting hundreds of Muslims than at Iranians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Syrians, Indians, Algerians, Russians, Somalis, and Serbians for liquidating tens of thousands?

If nearly two-thirds of the Arabic world believe that Arabs were not involved in September 11, why should any American believe anything that two out of three people from that region say?

Will Palestinians cheer when Saddam Hussein launches chemical-laden missiles against Israel when we invade his country?

Why after half a century has the Saudi government suddenly now decided to enter the negotiations about Palestine?

If Iran launched missiles of mass destruction against Israel, would the EU do anything?

If North Korea attacked South Korea, would the EU do anything?

If someone blew up another 3,000 Americans, would the EU do anything?

Has anyone made an inventory of the all the goods, services, and equipment that France has sold to Iraq since 1991?

Why are most of the talking heads on television who are ex-military men direct, honest, polite, and rarely self-absorbed, while the academic pundits usually stutter, lose their cool, and say inane things "one could imagine…" and "as it were"?

How can training someone for four years to lead men into battle make one a more effective speaker and thinker than someone prepped for five years in graduate school to teach in the university and write?

I know that there are properly nuanced answers to these questions that touch on issues of pragmatism, national security, statecraft, requisite education, and other such abstract considerations. But millions of us Americans, I think, wonder about them nevertheless — and just maybe we are not so crazy after all.
 

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Jihad for Kids
February 4, 2002
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The Children's Club
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http://wtvt.com/investreptr/jihad.html

It’s a show that won't make the Saturday morning lineup on any American network. But it has had a prominent slot on Palestinian TV. The program lacks the same slick production value of an American children's show, but it's just as influential. It's called The Children's Club.

It comes complete with puppet shows, games, songs and a very chilling message about becoming a suicide bomber. A little girl sings in Arabic about her ultimate ambition in life.

(Song Translation) “Oh sing my sister constantly about my life as a suicide warrior.”

Another girl screams about preparing to die.

(Song Translation) “I foresee my death, but I march quickly. Am I afraid? Life has little value because I'm returning to my lord and my people will know I am a hero.”

That message is repeated again and again in song and verse.

(Song Translation) “I will come at the time of drought with my best efforts bring a machine gun, violence anger, anger, anger...”

The children, most of them elementary school age, shout a message of violence.

“I will return with the dawn of tomorrow. It is my conviction of launch a jihad.”

(Song Translation) “When I wander into Jerusalem, I'll turn into a suicide warrior in battle dress, in battle dress, in battle dress.”

A teacher cheers them on, “Bravo, bravo, bravo.”

If you're like most Americans, you had no idea that the show existed, but the Children's Club is no secret to Israelis.

“I am still shocked every time I see it,” says Hela Crown-Tamir who lived in Israel for 19 years.

“Imagine a teacher telling them bravo, "Crown-Tamir says, "because they're going to grow up to be a militant Islamic suicide bomber.”

Crown-Tamir moved back to The Tampa Bay area to escape the violence that ruined her travel business. She says Americans are just now waking up to the realities Israelis have been facing for years, that children are trained as suicide bombers. Because it's so dramatic, some Israeli groups have used excerpts from The Children's Club to produce a campaign against Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat.

But are Palestinian children really educated this way? Or is this just an Israeli propaganda tool? We contacted several Islamic groups in the Tampa Bay area, but no one from any of those organizations would even agree to watch the tape.

But University of South Florida professor Abdelwahab Hachiche did agree to watch it.

“I always keep a reasonable degree of skepticism about anything I see or anything I read.”

Hachiche is an internationally recognized expert on Mideast terrorism. He's also an Arab and a Moslem. Until we gave him the tape, he'd never heard of the show. And while he says he has no idea who produced it, he says the translations are accurate and the problem is real.

“And the indoctrination and the danger of indoctrination is very, very serious.”

Dr. Hachiche calls this kind of teaching nothing short of infanticide. But he hopes children growing up in today's Islamic world will ultimately reject these messages of hatred.

“On both sides the younger generation are looking for true leaders who will have the courage to overcome this passion that is leading to mutual destruction.”

Still, in the mid-east the violence continues. And now even in America we're looking terrorism right in the face-- listening and wondering if this is the voice of the future.

<font face=arial size=1><blockquote><hr noshade size=1>And this Muslim scholar doesn't have any idea of what he said.  Even after witnessing that tape and apparently being troubled by it, he responds with a statement that puts the Palastinians and Isralies on the same moral level.  Is he evil?  More likely just ignorant.<hr noshade size=1></blockquote></font>
 

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From http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD41002

Sheikh Omar Bakri: "The life of estrangement will lead... to [a] change in the situation of the country in which we live, as the Muslims changed the situation in Abyssinia and Indonesia. Allah willing, we will transform the West into Dar Al-Islam [that is, a region under Islamic rule] by means of invasion from without. If an Islamic state arises and invades [the West] we will be its army and its soldiers from within. If not, [we will change the West] through ideological invasion from here, without war and killing."

"Either we will preach to them and they will accept [Islam], or we will live among them and they will be influenced by our lives and will accept Islam as a political solution to their problems, not as an ideological solution. Islam can be a spiritual faith and it can be a political faith... Islam defended the religion of the Christians, the Jews, and others, and stated that 'there is no coercion in religion.' [But] the coercion is in the laws. Laws can be Islamic-religious and they can be man-made. They [the West] have imposed man-made law on us, and the [future] Islamic regime will impose Islamic religious rulings on them. The Muslim will act according to this law out of obedience [that is, willingly], and anyone who is not a Muslim will do so by force of law. I do not obey the man-made law. Even if I don't break it, I do not obey it. Allah said: 'Do not obey the infidels and the hypocrites.'"
 

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Al-Watan is an Arabic-language "national weekly Arab-American newspaper" published in Washington D.C., San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York, whose mission is to provide Arab and Muslim Americans "with the most current, valuable, reliable, and informative news on political, economic, social, cultural, and educational issues, which concern the Arab-American community in their relations with the U.S. society at large… through maintaining a positive relationship with the community... coordinating efforts with Arab and Muslim American organizations to promote the achievements of the community as well as empower them through active involvement through political, media, social, and educational sectors."

Recently, Al-Watan published a series of poems titled, "Yes I am a Terrorist" and, "The Ape," which was accompanied by an image of President George W. Bush together with one of a howling chimpanzee. The poem depicts Bush as an ape worshiped by some Arab leaders. The poems can be read here: http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page...&ID=SP40702
 


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