Let's beat this Lead-Free thing to death...

[BLASTMASTER]

As our next trip to FHL gets closer, I'm getting nervous about the brand of shotgun slug we're using. I sent the Ask a Warden email this message:


Last year, when my favorite pig hunting locations (Camp Roberts & FHL) went lead free, I ordered some custom made steel ball shotgun slugs from Stars and Stripes Ammo (starsstripesammo@hotmail.com). Since then I noticed DFG published a list of authorized lead-free ammunition (including shotgun slugs) but the steel ball from Stars and Stripes was not included. Was that list intended to be all inclusive? Is the steel ball slug from Stars and Stripes legal?

Someone...please set my worried mind free.

 

[ksberry209]

My understanding is that they can take it and send it to their labs and if they determine that it contains lead you are in violation. If no lead then you are safe. If they really did cite you then ask them to take a shell to their lab and you will see them in court.

 

[oneshothunter]

lead free is just that no lead other than that all else is ok im thinkin

 

[Freedivr2]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oneshothunter @ Feb 26 2008, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

lead free is just that no lead other than that all else is ok im thinkin[/b]

Technically that's not correct, according to what we (Calif. DFG Hunter Safety Instructors) heard at our annual conference last Saturday. Capt'n Roy Griffith stated that the definition of "Lead Free" is as long as it's less than 1% lead........

like I said, only technically incorrect there..........try to find anything with less than 1%...other than my head and the percentage of working brain cells in it.....

 

[scr83jp]

All metals have trace amounts of lead in them:copper,steel,iron,etc it's in the ore bodies.The Ca F&G only lists Barnes Bullets but Nosler has lead free as does taurus,magtech and info from the shot show was hornaday is working on a non lead bullet but not sierra.Copper is poisonous as are most metals wonder when we'll have some bird die of copper poisoning.I think all high tension electrical transmission lines should be removed since more condors die from electrocution than anything else blackout the whole SF bay area.

 

[BLASTMASTER]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freedivr2 @ Feb 26 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

... according to what we (Calif. DFG Hunter Safety Instructors) heard at our annual conference last Saturday. Capt'n Roy Griffith stated that the definition of "Lead Free" is as long as it's less than 1% lead...[/b]

That makes me feel better for sure. I was afraid the DFG published list of lead-free ammunition was all inclusive, and that officials would be comparing my ammunition to those on the list. If that list was actually a guideline, intended to point out examples of accetible ammunition, then I should be good.

The slugs I have are 3" mag 1oz lead-free steel in a thin sabot, designed for extended penetration. There was a tungsten carbide option, but at $45+ per round, I figuire they're pigs not rhinoceroses...

(haha, you would think someone who can spell rhinoceroses could also spell acceptable but I guess not)

 

[Speckmisser]

As of right now, to the best of my knowledge, NO FINAL SPECIFIC DEFINITION EXISTS for non-lead or "lead free" ammo. Yeah, you read that right. Not only have they banned lead ammo, the jury is still out on what consititutes "lead free" ammunition.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Where can I find a list of known legal projectiles for hunting?
The Department and Commission will be initiating a process such that the Commission
can certify projectiles as meeting the “non-lead” threshold for purposes of these
regulations. This public review process will occur between February and June 2008 and
should result in a listing of authorized projectiles acceptable for hunting within the
affected area. Currently, the Department recommends visiting this webpage:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/con...ead-ammo-ca.pdf although the
subject projectiles have not been certified for the July 1 requirement (that is, all would be
considered legal until July 1, 2008 and possibly thereafter).
If I purchase ammunition listed at that website, what assurance do I have that it
will be legal after July 2008?
There are no assurances until the certification process is completed in Spring 2008. We
recommend hunters be mindful of this timeframe.[/b]

The 1% or less is a working reference, and to be fair, is probably where the discussion will end up... but as of the passage of the law in January, the Fish and Game Commission still had not defined what is acceptable as "lead free" ammo.

What does that mean? You can go out and buy up all the Barnes, eTip, Lapua Naturalis, or any of a dozen frangible loads and still find that your ammo is banned when this thing is done. I'll admit it's not likely, but I also didn't think it was likely that they'd include rimfire ammunition in the initial ban... so I've learned the hard way not to count on the F&GC to do the right thing.

Of course, the F&G Commission could show some common sense and start out by allowing bonded bullets and most of the existing lead-alternatives, remove rimfires from the ban until reasonable lead-alternatives are available, and then working the list down as research and results dictate over time.

You can read the latest communication regarding the lead ban on the DFG site here: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/docs/LeadInformation.pdf

Oh yeah... if you don't see your ammo on the approved list, contact the Fish and Game Commission and ask that it be added to the study list.

 

[WildlifeBranch]

The list is not comprehensive, in fact we just updated it yesterday to add the e-tip for example as we got repeated calls from Winchester.

The list was started last year as a guide to hunters who wanted to voluntarily comply before there was a law, before we knew there would be a law.

Now that there is a law that will take effect July 1, we debated about pulling it off the website versus leaving it up because it would appear confusing. We have left it up, but with the caveat that lead is still legal in California now (except as required locally such as the Ft. Hunter Liggett example); that it is not all-inclusive.

The commission adopted 1 percent or less by weight as the definition of non-lead in December to accommodate the trace levels. Our understanding is that bullets sold as "lead-free" will have far less that 1% and will be fine.


The Final rule on the lead regulation has not yet been filed, so you won't see it in writing yet, we are compiling the last of the public comments on this topic from the Commission hearing process.

Now that manufacturers are learning of the adopted legislation and the Commission action, more are contacting us to get on the list-- even though it will not be the list in a few short months.

Eric

 

[BLASTMASTER]

And the Ask a Warden answer is...

"No, the list is not all inclusive. If you refer to www.dfg.ca.gov and click on the condor link from the face page, you will see that the list supplies "some" of the options and not ALL the options. As long as Camp Roberts allows the discharge of shotguns for hunting wild pig and your not using lead or in possession of lead rounds..your OK."

That was a much quicker response than I expected. I was just worried, because like most other hunters, I really do want to play by the rules.

 

[Jean]

I found the section on air rifles very interesting. So, I guess this means I won't be buying that battery powered nail gun for rabbit hunting............

 

[z71stealth]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scr83jp @ Feb 26 2008, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

All metals have trace amounts of lead in them:copper,steel,iron,etc it's in the ore bodies.The Ca F&G only lists Barnes Bullets but Nosler has lead free as does taurus,magtech and info from the shot show was hornaday is working on a non lead bullet but not sierra.Copper is poisonous as are most metals wonder when we'll have some bird die of copper poisoning.I think all high tension electrical transmission lines should be removed since more condors die from electrocution than anything else blackout the whole SF bay area.[/b]

Right on -- glad you pointed this out. Kind of makes you wonder who is really writing these laws...probably not folks who are actually concerned with reducing condor mortality...

 

[Huntr Pat]

Regardless, steel or copper. Make it easy on your self and get the barnes slugs/bullets. This is Federal land and when you show up at the window they will ask to see your ammo. They will recognized barnes ammo but if they donot recognized your ammo it will just delay your opportunity to hunt. Why fight it or try to debate it.