Los Padres National Forest

Rookies

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I was searching through the Los Padres National Forest and found that you cant do any target shooting in the forest for 2004.

Target Shooting
 

Backcountry

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I copied the text from the PDF file as this is a pretty significant policy that effects target shooters... note that hunting is still OK (but don't hold your breath).

Date:July 2, 2004
Dear Friend of Los Padres National Forest:

The purpose of this letter is to inform you of a decision I made recently to prohibit recreational target shooting in Los Padres National Forest until the conclusion of the 2004 fire season. You are receiving this letter because either you asked to be on our mailing list to receive target shooting or hunting-related information, or because we believe your business is associated with hunting or target shooting in some way. This letter is being distributed to approximately 350 contacts in Monterey, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Kern and Los Angeles Counties.

As you know, we are experiencing extreme fire conditions this year in Los Padres National Forest, including extraordinarily dry vegetation resulting from an extended drought. All five of the Los Padres District Rangers, as well as my fire staff officers, have expressed great concern about the fire danger in the forest. For this reason, on June 9, 2004, I issued a Forest Order imposing additional fire restrictions forest-wide, including the prohibition of recreational target shooting until the close of the official fire season. My decision to prohibit recreational target shooting is due, in part, to the fact that target shooting has caused a number of wildfires in the forest over the past several years, including ones that were very large and costly.

Under the temporary fire restrictions imposed on June 9, target shooting is now prohibited at all but two locations within the forest: the Winchester Gun Club (www.wcgc.org, 805-964-5606) in Santa Barbara County and the Ojai Valley Gun Club (www.dock.net/ovgc/) in Ventura County. Both of these facilities operate under special use permit to the Forest Service and are available for use by the general public at scheduled times. Contact the clubs for additional information. There are also many commercial target shooting ranges in communities near the national forest.

I want to emphasize that this restriction on recreational target shooting does not prohibit hunting with a valid California hunting license. We are hearing that there is some confusion within the hunting community regarding the effect of the target shooting prohibition on hunting. We would greatly appreciate your help in reaching both recreational target shooters and hunters with the correct information. We will issue a second news release next week to remind the public of the closures. As with many signs in the national forest, the fire restrictions signs are being vandalized or stolen about as quickly as we can post them, and that is adding to the communication problem.

Enclosed please find:
• Forest Order 04-10-5100-2, dated June 9, 2004;
• Our June 9, 2004 news release announcing fire restrictions, including target shooting;
• A flyer summarizing the fire restrictions that will be posted in English and Spanish throughout the forest.

Your local District Ranger will be happy to speak with you regarding conditions in your area:
• Mt. Pinos Ranger District – Tom Kuekes, 661-245-3731
• Ojai Ranger District – John Bridgwater, 805-646-4348
• Santa Barbara Ranger District – Linda Riddle, 805-967-3481
• Santa Lucia Ranger District – Kathleen Phelps, 805-925-9538
• Monterey Ranger District – John Bradford, 831-385-5434
• Public Affairs Office – Kathy Good, 805-961-5759

Sincerely, /s/ GENE BLANKENBAKER Forest Supervisor
 

Rookies

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Please be carefull atleast give me a chance to hunt next week without any forest clsoures.
 

MEF

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They should leave the forest closed to target shooting until the people learn to clean up after themselves. It's very easy to locate an area where somebody has done some target shooting, just look for all the broken glass, cans, TV sets, shell casings, etc that is strewn about. It's pathetic.
Mike
 

Tree Doc

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Originally posted by MEF@Aug 15 2004, 06:25 AM
They should leave the forest closed to target shooting until the people learn to clean up after themselves. It's very easy to locate an area where somebody has done some target shooting, just look for all the broken glass, cans, TV sets, shell casings, etc that is strewn about. It's pathetic.
Mike
Nothin' pizzes me off more than the garbage issue, MEF but be careful what you ask for! It could very well happen as we up here in SLO County lost a good spot for that very reason and LPNF Administrators NEVER opened it back up after it was cleaned. When a section of forest land closes it takes more than an act of congress to get it opened again and they are using our money to keep us out of more and more public land every day. I'm not sure what "gets my goat" more, them taking our land or the trash issue.
 

tmoniz

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The "no target shooting" in the National Forest will be the norm in probably all southern california forests. I must admit they are messy areas where people like to just blaze away. I have no problem with that, at least I would think people would pick up their spent casings and hulls much like you would a candy bar wrapper or plastic water bottle.
 

Dolemite

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Every time I go on a trip into the woods I carry out a good bit of other people's trash. Mostly beer cans (what a surprise, but at least you can get a deposit!) and shotgun shells. Not having the curteosy to pick up your own damn shells really burns me.

A few weeks ago I even found a huge mylar Valentines' day balloon. At least gives me a bit of a good feeling that I'm doing something. Complaining about it isn't going to get the forest clean. Yeah, it's a pretty sad state of affairs when a few jerks think they can throw their trash anywhere, but unfortunately we've got more than "just a few" of those jerks.

As for target shooting in Los Padres, some idiots haven't gotten the message yet. A NO SHOOTING sign at the campground I was at last week was littered with holes and .45 casings were everywhere.

As hunters, we've got to better than the slobs. Let's do our part as caretakers and pick up some trash when we come across it.

Now who's with me!?
 

larrysogla

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Been doing the trash pick-up thing for some years now whenever I go out hunting.
Just bring a big 30 gallon trash bag & a few minutes cleaning up the area & you feel good afterwards for helping the environment.
larrysogla.
 

runninbuck51

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Im with you,I enjoy hunting to much than to let a handfull of south of the borders screw it up for evryone--and i am not predjiduce--some of my best friends are latins--.
 

Speckmisser

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Originally posted by runninbuck51@Aug 22 2004, 05:31 PM
Im with you,I enjoy hunting to much than to let a handfull of south of the borders screw it up for evryone--and i am not predjiduce--some of my best friends are latins--.
Runninbuck, not to point an exceedingly judgemental finger at you, but comments like this ARE prejudiced, no matter who you have for friends.

Pinning litterbug status on one race, or labeling another race as inherent poachers is not productive and doesn't solve one bloody thing. It doesn't take much time in the woods to see that slobs, poachers, and litterbugs come from the whole spectrum. Try to give it some thought before posting up.

On a more positive note, Dolemite and others who pick up the trash rather than cuss about it and walk on by are doing us all a service.


I've filled my share of garbage bags at trailheads and campsites over the years, and will continue to do so. Yes, it pisses me off that some thoughtless, irresponsible jerk didn't have a little common decency and respect for the resource or for other people, but just being mad doesn't change anything. Getting involved and making a difference, that's the way we improve the image, as well as improving the experience for the next person who comes along.
 

runninbuck51

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I apoligize to all for the selfish remark I may have,but Im like you--I also have drug out more trash than any of the game animals that I persued TY.
 

D-Zone

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You know being hispanic myself, that comment Runninbuck51 made really offended me. I agree all races have their share of rotten apples, however making a blunt comment as you did was not called for. There are a few of us "south of the borders" with some sense.....
But back to the original topic. LPNF isn't as bad as other forest, but I agree everytime I go out I pick up at least 6 cans and a few shotgun shells. I don't understand how hard it is to pick up after yourselves. Sooner or later we'll be restricted to ranges only. what a shame.
 

runninbuck51

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Newbie,I WOULD LIKE TO APOLIGIZE TO YOU PERSONALY--i WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO POST SUCH A DUMB--i WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST BE MAN ENOUGH TO APOLOGIZE FOR IT--SOMETIMES YOU DO SOMETHING AND AS SOON AS YOU DO IT YOU WISHED YOU HADNT--PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLIGY AS IT COMES FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART--i DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY ACCEPY IM SO SORRY AND YOU WILL NEVER HEAR NOTHING LIKE THAT AGAIN FROM ME AGAIN TY SO MUCH.
 

crittergetter

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A question to those of you that are picking up the trash. Do you buy a Adventurer pass? Not that you can't pick up trash just to do a good deed but you should also be rewarded. One of the many things the Adventurer pass was supposed to fund was more trash pick up and containers. The problem is that it dosn't. No excuse for the lower class that litters either. I realize that your points are no one should have to pick it up at all. Unfortunately until ther is an IQ test to enter the forest there will be trash. I have suggested to the forestry service that they should have a volunteer program where we (all forest users) can meet at a designated campground and pick up trash, maintain trails or whatever for an hour or two. In return they would give us a forester pass. For some reason they don't like my idea. Maybe if they heard it from someone else. Give em a call. The other thing I do is anytime a camera is available I take a picture of the trash I picked up and send it to the Forest office with a note: "You owe me free access to public land" I put my name and address on it too. No reply yet though. Its kinda fun though and I'm sure it gets some attention. I keep the pictures and letter dates in a file. It's getting pretty thick now. I get quite a few tickets every year for not having a "Pass". I refuse to purchase one. One ranger told me that I may have a warrent for my arrest if they are not paid. I'm ready to go to court with my file when they are.
 

easymoney

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treedoc and specmisser,
I'm with you all the way on this one. The problem is getting worse...
Having to pay twice for the previliege of having basically nothing being done, at least up here in the LPNF, does pizz me off as well.
The Adventure Pass was originally enacted to make repairs and improvements in the Angeles, San Bernadino and Los Padres National Forests. These areas are being trashed at an alarming rate. Bad behavior by ignorant and stupid people, regardless of ethnic background, will always be a problem. Especially as the population soars in the major metropolitan areas(LA Basin). But, I have yet to see ANY money being spent up here in the LPNF to make repairs of roads or campgrounds, replacing vandalized signs, repairing or maintaining trails, picking up trash, etc... I have seen a couple of "new rangers" in "new 4x4 SUVS" driving around checking for Adventure Passes in the OHV areas. I have never witnessed them actually getting out of their vehicles. If anyone can show me where this money is being spent in a concrete, constructive way " to solve these problems", I would love to know and stand corrected...
As the population increases here in Kalifornia, we will continue to see a degrading of services here in the rural counties, in an attempt to pander to the major populace... It doesn't matter to me who left the trash, they just need to take it back out with them. It astounds me that someione can carry in a full heavy twelve pack, yet can't seem to carry out the lightweight empties... I also see just as much trash being left behind and along the forest roads by young, affluent, "caucasian" mortorcycle enthusiasts, as anywhere.

I will continue to pick up other peoples trash because I choose to and I will continue to buy and display my Adventure Pass because I'm a law abiding citizen, but that doesn't mean I have to like it... I just face the facts of life and get on with my enjoyment of the out of doors....
 

D-Zone

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Its cool Runninbuck, We've all said things then regreted it. Apology accepted.

Critergeter now that is a good idea
I wouldn't mind as much paying for that adventure pass If i knew exactly where that money is going to. I know it isn't helping the littering problem thats for sure.
 

Dolemite

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Critergeter,
Thanks for the help cleaning up the forest. While I understand your frustration with the Adventure pass, and you're standing on principle, you should get one. The rangers I've spoken really didn't want to start the program, but they really had no choice. The feds and state gov't just kept slashing budgets while costs were level or increasing. A ticket for not having a pass is pretty steep, though I don't remember exactly how much it is.

Easymoney,
I've spoken to some rangers and yes, even though the revenue from the pass was supposed to pay for improvements to the forest, severe cutbacks in the federal budget, coupled with the high cost of fighting the seemingly endless forest fires, has diverted a chunk of that money. A good amount does go to improvements, but they're usually in the most popular areas, so if you get off the beaten path a bit and head to one of the more remote campgrounds, you're not likely to see any difference.

That said, I think coordinating some kind of cleanup with, or without the Forest Service is a great idea. We can't afford NOT to be activists, not when public land available to hunt on is shrinking at an alarming rate, and the public perception of hunters continues to deteriorate. If we can score some good public relations exposure, that would be an even bigger win. All it would require is a well-worded letter to the local paper announcing a cleanup inviting all interested folks (hunters or not) and a followup letter or even a phonecall to a reporter to get a full story. Editors are always looking for feel-good stories.
 

crittergetter

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Dolemite. Now were getting into politics. Bare with me. When the pass first came out I did some research and found that a large percent, more than half to my memory, went to the upper administration in form of a salary raise. (didn't our congress just do that recently right before they went on vacation?) Thats right the same people who put in into action stand to gain the most from it. I realize most rangers don't like it either. That furthers my point. It is not right. It is public owned land that the public is being taxed to enter. Not seeing the results of the fees is a bigger reason not to purchase one. I'm not sure how it has been distributed but I see no difference at the places I frequent. I may not agree with how all of our tax money is spent but atleast I can see where alot of it goes. My point was that I have earned my pass by doing what it essentially fails to do. Make cleaner forests. If they kept their end of the deal I would grudgingly participate. In some other states the idea has come up and has been quickly put to sleep largely due to public opposition. Others it is being accepted. I have worked closely with various government agencies over the years and the bottom line is they manage poorly and ask us to pay for it. I belive that if people buy it, they won't change. You can count on the cost of the pass going up also. The LPNF in Monterey county no longer requires a pass. For a reason. The pass is still in the experimental stage. It is not set in stone yet so why let it be. I look at it this way:
Hunting License $31.25
Fishing License $31.25
1st deer tag $19.75
upland stamp $ 6.50
Cal duck stamp $13.25
Federal duck ??????
Pig tag $15.00

That's $117.00 not counting the Pittman-Robertson tax on all ammunition. A fee that mostly goes back into the environment and not counting what is budgeted to various agencies out of the taxes we already pay. Then they are going to charge us to enter land that is communitivly owned. I have trouble accepting that. The only cost from the list I have a problem with is the pig tag since it is feral and detremental but thats another story. Oh ya, the ticket cost is only $5.00. They charge for the day use fee. You also mentioned the cost of fire fighting. More politics there. Anyway. Happy hunting.
 

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