Magazine Capacity

[slainte114]

Howdy all.

I've been under the mistaken impression that in California, if you had a detachable magazine, it could only hold 5 rounds. I just found out that this is not true. I don't even know where I "learned" this or for how long I've been wrong about this, but I do know when I searched for the correct info, I found quite a bit of posts in various forums that perpetuated this false info. So here it is.

There is no magazine limitation for hunting in California other than what the state law says. Basically, 10 rounds.

I know. I'm not here to debate how many rounds you really need. Or the old if "you can't make the shot in...." debate. Just dispelling rumors and I thought this forum might be a good place to post. Below is an email answer from an actual Game Warden.


Question:
I went to my local sporting
goods store to buy a back-up rifle
magazine. The rifle came with a
three round capacity magazine
(not counting the one round in the
chamber). I wanted to buy a fiveround
magazine. The salespeople
told me they believe that there is a
limit of three rounds per magazine
in California. I am aware of the
three shot-shell limit, but I can’t
find any reference to maximum
rifle capacities. Is there such a
thing?
Answer:
You are correct, the “three-shot”
limit (total capacity of gun) applies
to the use of shotguns while
hunting big game mammals, small
game mammals, resident and
migratory upland birds or waterfowl.
A shotgun may not hold more
than six shells when taking nongame
species or furbearers. There is
no magazine size restriction for
rifles under the provisions of either
the California Fish & Game Code or
the California Code of Regulations/
Title 14. Laws pertaining to rifle
magazine capacities generally are
addressed in the California Penal
Code and hunters should be aware
of PC sections 12276 and 12276.1,
which define assault weapons. Any
semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that
has a fixed magazine with the
ability to accept more than ten
rounds is considered an assault
weapon. For a complete overview of
applicable firearms laws, hunters
are encouraged to go to the California
Department of Justice’s website
at: http://caag.state.ca.us/<WBR>firearms

by Lt. Liz Schwall
Lt. Liz Schwall is CalTIP program
coordinator. Contact her at
lschwall@dfg.ca.gov.

 

[EL CAZADOR]

I always thought the max for mag capacity for rifles was 5? Hmm, I'll have to do some more research. Lt Schwall isn't the one writing the tickets, so I don't always trust what she says.

 

[Mntngoat]

I'm certain it's in teh rules only 5 rounds max for hunting rifles too.

ML

 

[Mntngoat]

Did soem research, subsection 353 does not address rifle magazine capacity as it does for shotguns that I can find. I will continue to use only rifles that carry 5 rounds regardless.

ML

 

[pbrdog]

I installed a drop mag kit on my 700 BDL. I have 2 - 4rd mags and a 10 round mag. Never used the 10 rd mag but just wanted one when I got the kit. Now my Win 94 holds 6 rds in the tube mag I believe. For hunting purposes, I only load 3 rds anyway.

 

[slainte114]

This is why I posted the info.

I don't know where the 5 round rumor came from, other than some other states have that rule. Washington used to, but not anymore from what I've read.

I scoured the Fish and Game laws. There is no 5 round magazine minimum law. Couldn't find any regulation regarding rifle magazines. Only shotguns. That's why I went to the "Ask a Warden" section. Apparently this question has been asked so many times, it's been permenantly posted there.

 

[slainte114]

By the way, you'll notice in the origional email to the warden, the person asking the question says the gun store told him that he could only have 3 rounds while hunting in California. He wanted to buy a 5 round mag.

Just another example of bad info being spread around.

If I'm wrong, please show me where the law says anything about detachable rifle mags.

 

[crazy]

I have gone round and round on this subject. There is no magazine size restriction in California on a rifle as far as DFG is concerned. I spoke with a hunter safety ed instructor about this and she called a game warden. He told her 10 rounds. As far as DFG goes, they only mention CA penal code. So if it's not illegal per CA penal code or DFG, then there is no restriction. The 10 round limit that the warden spoke of would only apply to a fixed magazine because that is illegal per CA penal code. If he was speaking about a detachable magazine, he would be wrong.


If you have a high cap mag that you have owned before the ban went into effect, it's legal. The restrictions don't apply to tube magazines like on a lever action. Does your head hurt yet?:rotflmao: If something is not illegal, then it's legal. If someone is going to write you a ticket for something that you think is legal, make them show you the specific code.

I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.:smiley-mouse: If someone sees something incorrect in what I wrote, I welcome a correction and a possible smackdown.

 

[bowslinger]

Good point crazy...

 

[larrysogla]

Some Federal lands prohibit the use of 10+ round magazines while hunting or target shooting (if allowed). I have read the Carrizo Plains National Monument rules administered by the Bureau of Land Management and it says that 10+ round magazines are not allowed for hunting in the Carrizo. Hunting is allowed but target shooting is prohibited in the Carrizo. There should be no problem hunting with a 10 round or less magazine per California DFG or with the Federal Gooberment. HOWEVER DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT......you should personally check the CURRENT regulations on the Federal, State, County or Township jurisdiction when planning on that hunting trip.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

 

[ltdann]

I call DFG on this very topic years ago, when I wanted to lug my M-1 Garand around for awhile. They very clearly told me, use the state law, which says no more than 10 rds on a detachable magazine. ]

For a whole season I had a 8 rd enbloc clip hooked to my vest and checked into the game station twice a day. The only question I ever recieved was "M-1 Garand? That suckers heavy!"

Still can't figure out why the 3 shell limit for shotguns while hunting big game. Makes no sense, 10 rds for the rifle, 3 for the shotgun?

 

[larrysogla]

The 3 shell shotgun magazine limit on big game hunting................could be because the regulatory folks are precluding that human nature will be too tempted to stash a few birdshot shotgun shells in one's pocket while hunting big game with a smooth bore shotgun barrel firing shotgun slugs. If dove or quail season is open...........it is just a matter of seconds to eject the shotgun slug shells and reload with birdshot and bang at dove or quail.........so to pre-empt human temptation, they just keep hunting shotguns, whether big game intended or not...........at the 3 shell limit. It simplifies things at the enforcement level and helps the big game shotgun hunter stay legal...........tempted or not.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

 

[tenpercentfirearms]

I am working with a BLM ranger on a Geocache that I have in the Carrizo Plain titled, "A nice place for a picnic or to sight in your rifle." He notified me that target shooting is prohibited in the Carrizo Plain. Naturally, I don't want to take his word or the word of their website. I want to see either a management plan or federal regulations that state this is prohibited. I can't find it anywhere. I will eventually ask the ranger, but doing a Google search I stumbled upon this thread. Can you guys point me where to find these mythical regulations about magazine capacity and/or a target shooting prohibition? The only thing I can find in the management plan is they are supposed to encourage target shooting facilities outside of the monument. Thanks.

 

[tenpercentfirearms]

I eventually found it in the management plan.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media....Par.817607b0.File.pdf/InfraAdminElements.pdf

Objective 1.1: Establish shooting closures to protect visitors within the following high-use areas.
Action 1.1c Recreational target shooting is prohibited in the CPNA.

My question is where do they define "recreational target shooting"? I guess I will just take non-lead ammo and just shoot at a jack rabit 30 times as he runs in front of a cardboard box with a x on it out in the distance.

 

[larrysogla]

The "No Target Shooting" prohibition is posted at all the bulletin boards in the Carrizo Plains Nat. Monument. The BLM control the law enforcement inside the CPNM..........the BLM IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT inside the CPNM........so that is where it begins and that is where it ends.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

 

[tenpercentfirearms]

The "No Target Shooting" prohibition is posted at all the bulletin boards in the Carrizo Plains Nat. Monument. The BLM control the law enforcement inside the CPNM..........the BLM IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT inside the CPNM........so that is where it begins and that is where it ends.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

Nothing like obeying your masters without question. Let's hope the BLM doesn't post, "No guns allowed" signs or it seems some people wouldn't question it. I guess if it wasn't actually part of an actual legal policy, management plan, or law, they could get away with just about anything because "they are the BLM".

That isn't how I operate. If you think you have the authority to do something, I am going to check on it. I guess that is the difference in mentality between the people of Los Angeles and the people of Kern County.

 

[#1Predator]

This is why I posted the info.

I don't know where the 5 round rumor came from, other than some other states have that rule. Washington used to, but not anymore from what I've read.

I scoured the Fish and Game laws. There is no 5 round magazine minimum law. Couldn't find any regulation regarding rifle magazines. Only shotguns. That's why I went to the "Ask a Warden" section. Apparently this question has been asked so many times, it's been permenantly posted there.

This is one of the most misunderstood regulations in California when it comes to hunting big game. Slainte114, your are correct. The limit on detachable magazine capacity a rifle (in California) is determined by the Penal Code. The Fish and Game Code follows the Penal Code in that regard. A ten round detachable magazine is the legal maximum for hunting big game in the fields, forests or waters of the state of California. Federal lands are not considered State lands and would have their own regulations.

I have a .357 magnum lever action rifle that I use to hunt pigs on occasion. The tubular magazine (not restricted by the Penal Code) holds nine .357 rounds and it is legal to hunt all game, nongame, and furbearers on State lands. I also have a 10mm handgun that holds 15 rounds in the detachable magazine. These magazines were legal when I bought the handgun (pre-ban) but have since been declared illegal as an after market purchase in California. Since the pistol/magazines were bought legally, I could use this weapon, with its 15 round magazine, to hunt in California as well.

And for clarification, as to larrysogla comments regarding carrying a few birdshot rounds while hunting big game with slugs, this is illegal in California, and has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the 3-round rule for shotguns while hunting big game. Regarding the taking of resident small game (which includes resident game birds - see section 257) while possessing slugs or 00 buckshot, California Code of Regulations, Section 311(b) states, "Shotgun shells may not be used or possessed that contain shot size larger than No. BB, except that shot size larger than No. 2 may not be used or possessed when taking turkey. All shot shall be loose in the shell." Slugs and/or 00 buckshot may not be possessed when hunting small game. Likewise, when hunting big game, birdshot may not be possessed.

Violation of section 311(b) is a misdemeanor. Numerous tree squirrel hunters have been cited for carrying a few "bear protection" slug and/or 00 buckshot rounds while hunting. If they had been carrying a .44 magnum handgun for "bear protection", they wouldn't have been cited.

 

[tenpercentfirearms]

This is one of the most misunderstood regulations in California when it comes to hunting big game. Slainte114, your are correct. The limit on detachable magazine capacity a rifle (in California) is determined by the Penal Code. The Fish and Game Code follows the Penal Code in that regard. A ten round detachable magazine is the legal maximum for hunting big game in the fields, forests or waters of the state of California. Federal lands are not considered State lands and would have their own regulations.

Can you reference why a ten round magazine is the limit? It is perfectly legal to possess larger capacity magazines that you lawfully purchased prior to 2000. Additionally I have a large capacity magazine permit with my name on it as a licensed FFL. It is not illegal for me to possess magazines purchased after 2000. So I can legally hunt with a twenty or thirty round detachable magazine.

 

[#1Predator]

Can you reference why a ten round magazine is the limit? It is perfectly legal to possess larger capacity magazines that you lawfully purchased prior to 2000. Additionally I have a large capacity magazine permit with my name on it as a licensed FFL. It is not illegal for me to possess magazines purchased after 2000. So I can legally hunt with a twenty or thirty round detachable magazine.

Yep. I should have made this point clearer. I mentioned pre-ban versus post ban magazines regarding a handgun but I didn't do the same with the rifle magazines. I should have said any legal rifle and/or handgun detachable magazine (legal as defined by the Penal Code) of any capacity can be used to hunt on state lands within California. Twenty or thirty round pre-ban AK/AR magazines are legal to use for hunting in CA provided they were legally obtained and are legally possessed under the provisions of the Penal Code.

Prior to the ban, AKs could be purchased rather cheaply. Ammo, 7.62x39, was also very cheap. AKs with twenty and thirty round magazines were commonly found in some deer hunting areas of the national forest. The problem - the cheap ammo in the magazines were full metal jacket - a definite Bozo no - no.

Let's stir the pot a little more :stir pot:. Class Three Federal Firearms License holders (legal to possess full automatic weapons including belt-fed weapons) could legally hunt big game in California with full automatic "rifles" (generally a shoulder fired weapon firing a single projectile - yes, I know - shotgun with slug, etc. but we won't get into that now) IF (big "if") the provisions of their FFL allow such use :skeered:. Clear as mud, huh? Okay, I have a headache now . Time for some aspirin.