Archilochus

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Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone is interested in 'pooling' an order for the "mirror optics" that our tiger photographing friend from India discovered.
Check 'em out at:
http://www.kube.ch/index.htm
Look for the "TR-230 cone optics"
These parts are optical components that are used in place of the Fresnel lens - they do not have any electronic circuitry included.  Anyone who builds their own PIR sensors might want to try these things out.  I found some a few years back, but the manufacturers name had been removed.  The parts work well with a max range of about 50 feet and FOV of 90degrees.  The best thing about them is there is no problem with mis-aligned lenses or getting the focal point of the lens set right.  The mirror optics "look" through a slot as small as 1/16"W x 1/2"H !! (restricts FOV to match cam).  A 1/2" circle works fine too.  Makes for good "bear-resistant" sensor openings.  Also perfect for making "micro-cams".

Anyways.... I'm hoping to get a big enough order together so that I can hit 'em up for a lower price (also helps cut the shipping from Switzerland).

Anyone interested??... send an e-mail

Thanks,
Archilochus
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Arch,

I'd like to try one, but I don't build my own PIR circuit.   Would they interchange in the ms20.  Will they work in your circuit.  If so put me down for one also
 

Archilochus

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Hi guys,

AEH.... The mirror optics could be physically adapted to the MS-20 or RS sensor, but I'm not sure if the electronics of those models would make a good match.  If they have too much (or too little) gain, the range could go up or down considerably.  I'll have to check over the various schematics and see how it looks - I'll post back to this thread when (..if..) I can figure it out.  The parts work well with my sensor schematic....

if that didn't work... check http://archilochus.netfirms.com/pics.html and click the "small sensor board" link.

****** & Brian... I'll let you know about the quantity price as soon as I get the reply.

Arch
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Are you going to get the window too.  I'd like to have one,  I'll figure out how to use it someday
 

Archilochus

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Hi AEH,
I can toss in any extra stuff with the rest of the order.  Have to see where the volume discout ends up for the various parts.

Archilochus
 

Tinhorn

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I can't make up my mind........ Help ME!

My "sign" is Gemini, the twins and my wife is always telling me she'll "let the Twins fight it out", when I have to make a decision!

Tinhorn
 

Archilochus

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Hi Tinhorn,
Hows about this to help the Twins decide.........
I'll send you a few "engineering samples" when the shipment arrives.  That's GOTTA make decidin' easier! :)
I think I still have your address around the place somewhere.........

Arch
 

davered1

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Arch,

Could you swap some out for the pir in hamiltoes board? I would like to try a couple they sound interesting but I am too electronically challenged to build "my own" board.

Think it would work?

(Edited by davered1 at 9:00 pm on June 10, 2002)
 

Archilochus

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Hi davered,
No reason the parts couldn't be used with Hamiltoes board, but I'll ask him and see what he thinks.
The mirror optics are a replacement for the Fresnel lens - they simply attatch over the existing PIR sensor element.

The only problem I can think of is the possiblity that the sensor element is attached to Hamiltoes board in such a way that would make attaching the optics over it impossible - but the sensor element could just be temporarily removed,  attached to the optical part, then re-soldered to the board.  If you're building Hamiltoes un-assembled "kit", then there should be no problems at all.

I'll repost to this thread with Hamiltoes reply.

Archilochus
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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From what I can tell, the PIR sensor will have to mount 90° to the face of the board like the RS PIR or be very close to the edge.  Is that right ,Arch?
 

Archilochus

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Hi AEH,
That's right.  That's one of the things that allow for super small sensors in "micro-cams" - you can jam the circuit board and mirror optics into a thin enclosure.  For adapting to various already made PIR circuit boards - the sensor element could just just be removed from the board, inserted into the mirror optics, and then 3 short jumper wires could run to its leads.

Archilochus
 

hamiltoe

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If I understand the optics, they just slip over the PIR?  I think Archilochus is right, it should work, but the pre-assembled boards may have to have the PIR removed to slip the thing on.  Is the thing able to look through glass?  How would one seal the enclosure to keep out water and stuff?  They look pretty neat.  Once you get a price, let me know, I would be interested in trying out a few also.
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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They also sell that little "PIR Window" for the tr-230 to "protect it from the elements. Looks like some type of poly IR material.   I doubt it can see through any thing that the PIR cant normally see through.  I think the optics just focus the IR heat like the fresna, rings do in the fresnal lens.  

Arch,  You have a couple.  How is the sensitivity.  How much movement does it take to set it off.   I've noticed that the different fresnal lens designs have different zones.  Movement must occur detween two zones to create the differential to trigger the sensor.   You can move within a zone without setting it off.  the size of those zones seems to be proportional to the Width of the bands you can see on the lens itself and the focal distance.  
 

Archilochus

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Hamiltoe... Like the other PIR sensors, they need a window of a material that the sensor element can "see" through.  Glass, plexiglas, and many common plastics will not work.  Kube does sell the little window that AEH mentioned, or you can just use a small bit of the "raw" PolyIR material from Fresnel Tech - they sell it (in various colors) for almost nothing - 30US$ minimum order though (or call em up and ask for a 6"x6" engineering sample - you can get a lot of windows out of that! :)  The sensor can "look" through a VERY small window - a 1/2" hole, or a slot about 1/4" x 1/2".  You can add "blinders" to narrow the Field Of View (horizontal or vertical) to match the cam.  I have one sensor set up with a very tight (~5degrees) detection area.  The slot that it looks through is less that 1/16" wide!!!

AEH.... Max sensitivity at ~+75F is about 45 to 50 feet with the "basic sensor" circuit shown on my site.  Could probably sqeeze 10 more feet out of it by adjusting the gain or switching thresholds of the circuit a bit, but I like that maximum range - anything beyond that isn't too useful for photographic purposes.
The detection pattern is the only downside of these mirror optics.  The "zones" are coarser than what you get with a Fresnel lens - so the "dead zones" between the active detection zones are somewhat larger.  At the maximum range, you might have to move 3 feet or so to go from the edge of an active zone to the edge of the next zone.  As you get closer to the sensor, the zones get tighter.  As long as you have "blinders" on to match the cams FOV, this isn't really an issue though.  It's just a little disconcerting during "setup" if you're used to the smaller zones of the typical Fresnel lens.

Archilochus
 

davered1

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Arch,

Put me down for a couple,we might as well order 30$ worth of that RAW lens to though so it is complete. right?

Dave
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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I have a couple 8.5 x 11 sheets of the Poly IR4 material.  I'll should have plenty depending on how many Sensors you end yp getting.  at 1/16 x 1/2 they will go a long way.  I would prefer to get one of the windows with mine.  By the way, Arch.  Put me down for one as well.

They have sample plastic PIR material on the site as well for $5

You guys read the info on the Kube site on glueing the lens.  They are right.  I have been using double stick tape on ny lens.  Its the only think that will really stich well.  
 

apittet

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Great to see that my fooling around the web in the search of PIR and stumbling on Kube has generated interest in the group.  I would love to team up with you guys for an order, but that might just add to the shipping cost to route it through the States... I will go my own way and may do the shopping while in Swizterland this summer.

Keep us posted on your successes or failures with these tiny devices.

Cheers.
André
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Hey Arch,

I've got to got to Italy in three weeks.  Get to take my "full time night woman" with me and we are going to spend 4 days in Switzerland.  How big of a hurry are you in for the parts.  Maybe We could arrange to pick up the order and save some on freight.  I'd distribute them when I get back if that would work.  Might even talk the vendor I'm going to visit to ship then to you from there (really, really cheap) I leave on 7/5 and plan to return on 7/18 or so.  
 

Archilochus

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Hi AEH,
That sounds like a GREAT plan!  I've got no immediate plans for the parts, and I'm guessing the same is true for most everybody else who is interested in them.

I noticed in one of their data sheets they had some info about using their parts in a game-camera.   Maybe if ya told them what we're all up to they'd give us a discount :))

I'll e-mail you when I get all the totals figured out.
Thanks,
Archilochus
 
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