Modified JoeD's Timer for Refresh

Brian

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Guys,

I have nother post on the boards for this chip.  I have a documents that goes with the chip and board that explains how to connect it to the RS 49-425 and the MS20.

I have made all the changes I think would be useful on the 8 pin chip similiar to JoeD's.

I have changed the layout somewhat so I could integrate all the changes I felt would be needed.

Pin Connections:

Pin 1 is VCC
Pin 2 is LED w/470 ohm resistor
Pin 3 is Shutter [10K to base of 2n3904 w/relay in collector]
Pin 4 is Mode Button w/1K protection resistor
Pin 5 is Trigger from PIR negative going pulse
Pin 6 is Counter Button w/1K protection resistor
Pin 7 is Refresh [10K to base of 2n3904 w/relay in collector]
Pin 8 is GND

The detailed schematic is in my new document.  Ask and I can email it to you.

Features:

1. Refresh
2. Shutter
3. 5 modes
4. Double picture option with any mode
5. Counter option w/clear
6. All modes and counts are retained on power off.  They must be cleared or changed with the buttons.
7. PIR Testmode
8. 38 picture shutdown.  If you want it.
9. Security code after 5 power cycles if you want it.  IT is entered using the two existing buttons in a specific sequence.

Refresh Operation:

Refresh comes on for a 1/4 second every 7 minutes.
You can define the refresh time but once programmed it is final.

Mode Operation:
Delay before next picture can be taken

There are five modes.
Mode 1  One blink      30 seconds delay
Mode 2  Two blinks     60 seconds delay
Mode 3  Three blinks 120 seconds delay
Mode 4  Four blinks   240 seconds delay
Mode 5  Five blinks    360 seconds delay
You can define the individual times for each mode but once programmed it is final.

Counter Option:

Long pulses for ten's digit
short pulses for one's digit
If the count is zero then four quick pulses.

Double Picture Option:

Takes two pictures when triggered with a 6 second delay between pictures.  It can be used with any mode.  You can define how long between pictures.  Once programmed it is final.

38 Picture Shutdown:
After the picture count has reached 38 the PIC will stop the refresh pulse and stop triggering the camera with the PIR triggers.  This will save power on the camera.  Also, when the camera is powered down if the counter is greater than 38 it will clear the counts automatically. This if you forget to clear it then it will not matter.  This clear only happens when you power the chip on and off and the count is greater than 38.  The counter will still count after 38 but the camera functions stop.  So you could come up to your camera and push the count button to see how many pictures have been taken and the count may show you 125 but after 38 the camera functions stopped.  If you power the unit on and off the counts will go back to zero automatically.  If the counts are 38 or less then the count is saved even on power down.

Security:
After turning the PIC on and off 30 times you will have to push the two existing buttons in a certain way to get the controller to work again.  This way if someone steals it. IT will be useless to them after 30 power cycles and they do not know how to enable it again.  If you don't want this option let me know and I can leave it out.  It will not keep them from stealing it but it will keep them from using it.  I will kee a record of the key sequence on file along with the program that went in your chip or chips.  If you forget then I can remind you.  It might cause more problems for some but it is an option you can add if you want.

Operation:

On power up the LED will blink just as a confidence builder that everything is ok. After the initial sensor warm up of 1 minute the LED will blink again letting you know the PIC is ready.

Now every seven minutes the refresh will come on for a 1/4 second.

Pressing the Count button will display through the LED blinking how many pictures have been taken.  Once the final blink has occurred you have about 5 seconds or so to push the count button again and clear the counts.  The counts are saved so powering on and off will not affect the counts it must be cleared with the count button.  If the count button is not pushed after the last counter pulse then the chip goes back into normal operation.

If you press the mode button then the led will blink according to the mode it is now in.  There is about a 2 second window right after the last blink for what mode it is in that if you push the mode button again it will turn the double picture mode on or off.  Double picture mode is denoted by four short blinks for single picture mode and eight short blinks for double picture mode.  You can toggle these conditions back and forth right after the mode blinks have ended.
An example would be if you pressed the mode button and the led blinked once then you are in mode one which gives a 30 second delay.  If you do not push the mode button again in about 2 seconds the PIC will go back to normal operation with the 30 second delay.  If you do press the mode button again within the 2 seconds depending on what picture taking mode the PIC was in double or single it will change to the other mode and blink the LED four quick times for single mode or eight quick times for double picture mode.  This allows you to use double picture mode with all delay modes.  A power off will default the picture mode to single pictures even if you set it for double pictures before you toggled it off.  I figured this would be a save way of not waisting film if someone forgot they had double picture mode on and changed the film out.

PIR test mode.
I added a way to test your PIR.  If you hold the count button down while the camera is in normal operation until the LED comes on and then let off the LED will stay on for four seconds followed by a train of eight pulses. This tells you that you are now in PIR test mode.  Now everytime the PIR triggers instead of taking a picture the LED will go on and then off.  You can retrigger like this as long as you want.  You PIR in this mode needs to have a short delay between triggers so you don't have to wait for it to time out before you can trigger it again for testing the distance of your PIR or aiming your unit.  To take it out of this mode simply press and let off the Count button again. You should see eight short pulses again to let you know you are out of PIR test mode.  At this point the camera is back into normal operation.  Remember to see the count simple press the count button and let off quickly and the LED will show you the count.

If the PIR triggers then both the refresh and the shutter come on for about three seconds.  If the double picture mode is enabled then the PIC will wait for six seconds and the refresh and shutter will come on again.  If the double picture mode is disabled then it will only do it once.

I guess all I need now is to know if anyone is going to be interested in these timers and if anyone has any questions about it.

I forgot too that I didn't put a delay for opening the box since you can turn the power off and all you modes and counts remain in tacted until cleared or changed.

I think I can sell them for $7.25 a piece and $3.00 shipping.

I have documents that explain this in more detail for both the digital and 35MM version with another document for the pre-etched circuit board that I sell for this chip too.  I have a post for the board.



(Edited by Brian at 1:05 pm on Feb. 8, 2002)


(Edited by Brian at 1:23 pm on Feb. 18, 2002)
 



Tinhorn

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WOW!  That's a lot of features on only 8 pins?

The REFRESH is a great addition and I really like the "Persistant" Count with the Clear Option....

I kind of think a couple delays could be changed to maybe 30 and 60 min's, if that's possible.   The 1,2 & 3 min delays are really not much different.  Somebody,  like Jesse, who puts his cam on a mountain, not to be checked but twice a year, might be interested in such long delays to conserve film.



Who would do the programming for those "One-Time" features you mentioned?

Hope a 3 sec Shutter Time is enough!

Wonder how long the internal battery's last on those Jewels?

And how much would the Jewels Cost you think?

I have to say it again WOW!

Tinhorn
 

coyotebandit

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Yes,
I am interested, and I would like to see the schematic also.
When do you think you would start selling?
Could the relay be replaced by an analog switch to save power?
Have you tested it in the field yet?

Thanks
CB
 

TNDEERHUNTER

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Yes I would be interested. I'll take 2 if they work well.
I also would like to see a schematic.How much juice do they use.Batteries always an issue.Thanks keep us posted.
 

SIMPLEARKANSAN

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Did you say that the total cost is $7.25 plus $3.00 shipping?  I would definitely be interested in several of those units.  I have been well pleased with Joe D's timer but your unit sounds very impressive.  Let us know the final costs and wiring specs.  Thanks.
 

Brian

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Tinhorn,

You tell me what delays and times you want I will program them in.  The 30 minute and 60 minute delays would be no problem.  You tell me what delays you want and which mode 1-5 you want them on.  I figured out a way to use the sleep command on this feature so while the chip is in delay mode it is also conserving power instead of running at the 1mA current draw normally seen in a delay mode.  This makes long delays not only possible but power saving.  
I figured the three seconds on the shutter/refresh would be fine since the refresh would be keeping the flash charged up.  IF you think it would need to be longer then I can make it longer but I tested it and the owl flashes almost immediately some cameras may be different so I can length this to make sure.  Say six seconds.

Idle current would be around the same 100uA.  I am working to reduce this but that will be close.

Looks like $7.25 for the chip and $3.00 shipping.  I have one right now and several more on the way.  Probably take two to three days to get the rest in.  I didn't want to order a whole bunch until I saw how well they worked.

Coyotebandit,

I plan on selling them as soon as I get the chips in a someone tells me they want one.  Yes the chip can pull in an analog switch.  The output pin is capable of sinking 25mA.  I have only tested it on a bread board with an Owl PF Date and my own PIR circuit and it works great.

TNDEERHUNTER,

They will draw 100uA when Idle. I am working on reducing that but that is probably what they will draw.
I will get the schematic posted sometime tonight or tomorrow.  I don't have my stuff for my webpage here at work.

SIMPLEARKANSAN,

Yes. $7.25 plus $3.00 shipping.

Brian
 

Eagle Eye

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Brian,
I'm using the X10 sensor as modified by Hamiltoe along with a comparator. This setup would place constant + voltage on the trigger until motion is detected and it goes low, would this chip work with this application?
Also is it the same voltage as JoeD's.
 

Brian

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Eagle Eye,

Yes this chip is identical to JoeD's (PIC12CE674)  I just made my own program to do all the different stuff.
Yes the trigger is a negative going pulse which means it is high and goes low for a trigger.
 

Brian

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This is Brian from my AOL account at home.  I just tested the idle current while the chip is waiting to refresh and inbetween delays after a picture is taken and it is 7.8uA instead of 100uA like I previously thought it would be.  I used some different programming techniques and they worked.

This should be about as power efficient as they come.  With a low draw PIR like the glolab circuit at 20uA this circuit total at idle would only draw max 28uA.  This would run off a nine volt battery for several months.

Brian
 

SIMPLEARKANSAN

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Brian, I just picked up two owl pf's as recommended per Arkbowhunter.  I will definitely take two of your timers when available.  Thanks
 

Brian

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SimpleArkansas,

I ordered some of them today.  I should have them in a couple days.  I had them ship priority mail USPS.  I will use the next couple days to test them over really, really good.  Any questions are more than welcome.  As soon as I get them I will let you know.
Brian
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Brian,

I've looked at he JoeD and the Tinhorn timer and this looks like it will be the best of both with all your options. There are five of us that are building our first cameras together.  I am trying to figure all this out for the group.  Ive got the ms20 and the basic wiring and mechanical stuff down (I Think) but I am not very literate in electronics.  I have a controls engineer at work who will help me but I don't wan't to wear out my welcome.  Sounds like this option will be much less taxing on his time.  We will probably want 5.  I'll let you know when you get the schematic posted and I can run it buy him.  do you have a cost estimate or materials list for all the other components.  

I've been trying to follow your digital developments.  Thanks for all your work.  Are you considering a chip like this for the digitals. ie turn on, shutter, turn off.

PS used to hunt down in your neck of the woods. Now everything is leased and I live too far away.
 

Brian

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ArkansasElkHunter,

Yes hooking this thing up takes very little time.  If I can't get the schematic up today I will email it to the people who have shown some interest.  I added a PIR test mode last night too.  I was looking at my other designs to see if there was anything missing and I noticed that I didn't have a way to test the PIR so I added it to the design.  I edited my original post with the details of how it works.  It should save money buy getting rid of an extra LED indicator and a switch.  I say this because most people use an extra LED and DPDT switch at the relay for the shutter to be able to switch from using the camera to using the LED to test the operation of the PIR this will eliminate the need for either one.  IT will be built in.

Two transistors  =  $0.50
Two Pushbuttons = $2.00 Depends on button
Two Relays = $5.00 Depends on relay. I use relays from Jameco.
1 LED = $0.25
5 Resistors = $0.05 I order them in quantity so you may not be able to get them that cheap.

Yes on the digital stuff.  Don't even bother with the older schematic.  This chip will blow that old schematic away.  I will be working on it next.

Brian
 

coyotehunters

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this looks like a  good deal. i was getting ready to order  a joeds timer but i think i will hold off until you get some of these available.
 

Don

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Brian, I would definitely be interested also.  Please let me know when they are ready.  I am holding off my second cam for this.
Thanks
 

TNDEERHUNTER

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Brian,

All this sounds great let me know when you have some ready.

Thanks
TNDEERHUNTER
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Brian,

We would like to get 6 when you get the bugs worked out.  How do you aviod a start-up pic, seperate power to the pir and the timer. Will Tinhorns version of the MS20 modification with the resistor work. Do you have any plans to add a Day/Night/Day & Night option or do we just need to add one externaly.

my E-mail is elkhunter@mynewroads.com  I leave for Italy (work) from 2/5 thru 2/18 so I may not respond for a while.

Will it be 10.25 each or just one $3 shipping charge
 

Brian

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ArkansasElkHunter,

The shipping is a one time charge so if you order six I will ship all of them in the same package for $3 dollars.  So total for six would be 6@7.25 = 43.50 plus shipping $3 = $46.50 total.

I avoid the startup picture with a start up delay so the PIR has time to start its first transition before the PIC can see it.  Once the PIR transitions from high to low at startup which at power up is really quick I start my program.  So even if your PIR triggers at startup the PIC will ignore it until it transitions from high to low again which should be the first time a deer or you walk in front of the PIR.
This will allow you to power them both from the same supply.

Just for an example lets say your PIR on power up starts a trigger cycle which most do from high to low on the output.  Due to the built in startup delay the PIC will miss this transition because of the delay.  Now when the PIR output returns to high after the built in delay of the PIR has timed out the PIC will ignore this transition as well because it is a low to high transition but the PIC is looking for a high to low.  Now when you or an animal walk in front of the PIR the PIR will trigger taking the high to a low and the PIC will respond.
I hope I didn't get to wordy on that explanation.

I believe Tinhorn said that the MS20 works with the PICs really well.  As a matter of fact I think he is using one on a pic right now.  I don't have a MS20 so I can't say for sure but I do believe they work.  I'll as Tinhorn to make double sure.

I can add a day/night operation but it would be costly.  I would have to use 1-wire devices and they run about $1.60 a piece and I would have to have a minimum of two and they complicate the schematic but not too much.  I haven't received the devices yet so I don't know if it will work like I think it will but I will try it.  The extra cost may make it not worth the effort.

The one wire devices come in a TO-92 package which is just like most transistors we use.  Each one can be talked to individual by the PIC so I could use two of them which would allow me to put both relays on one pin through which I could turn them on and off.  This will free up one pin for the CDS cell.  The configuration for day/night/24hr would then be accessed through the mode buttons.  It will happen but not yet.

Brian
 

SIMPLEARKANSAN

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BRIAN, ARE THESE LIKE JOE D'S IN THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE READY TO PLUG INTO OUR CURRENT SET UP OR IS THE COST FOR ALL THE COMPONENTS AND WE DO THE SOLDERING?
 


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