MOTO question ,again.

Schoettgen

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For all you guys who don't like these things it sure seems like you are in the minority. I personally don't have one but the few times a year I hunt a refuge I seem to be the only one without. Seems like they work, though I kill my share of ducks, I have often had birds come to me then suck into a moto a pond away and bang. I would rather not have them at all, but I am about ready to buy one just to be on even footing. Can you guys give me any good reasons not to give in and buy one? I'm getting weak, and about ready to join the crowd.
 
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You know what shoettgen....I did the same thing a few seasons ago. It got pretty tiring being the only one out there without one. Most of the time we are shooting over flooded rice, and the neighboring blinds that had motos always got the action.

I wouldn't mind seeing all that crap banned, but until it is, I use one.
 

BDG

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Originally posted by Schoettgen@Jul 27 2004, 09:42 AM
Can you guys give me any good reasons not to give in and buy one?
Because if you buy one you will likely contribute to more restrictive seasons in the not so distant future. Because if you buy one you will help to shorten duck season. Pretty good reason if you ask me.
 

mudhen

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Here's my take;

'Liking' and 'using' are two totally different words.

I don't 'like' the SWD. It is ugly, distracting, basically unethical, expensive, leads to 1000's of batteries being dumped in the field, and generally a pain in the arse to haul in and out each day, etc.

But plain and simple, if legal I will 'use' one to compete. I will not spend $4000/yr to watch another blind take birds with the SWD.

Basically the SWD issue revolves around mallards.

The SWD is effective on all ducks (not sprig too much), but the duck world tends to revolve around mallards.

In a given situation where mallards are present in good numbers, the SWD tends to double the mallard take. Many studies have proven the 2-1 effectiveness of the SWD.

To the average Joe Schmoe hunter like myself who only shoots 1 or 2 mallards, the SWD is no big killer. My average bag is; 1 mallard, 2 teal, 1 sprig, 1 or 2 widgeon, maybe a woodduck in the fog, and the occasional gadwall, diver, etc.

Even with the SWD on a good day, I might shoot a whopping 3-4 mallards.

But on good clubs, maintained for mallards, their averages using the SWD can be very close to the bag limit.

I know of several clubs in the Suisun Marsh that will average 6-7 greenheads on a good hunt day. Most of their members use SWD for the ultimate 'greenhead' limit.
Without the SWD, they would still have a good hunt, but they would not be taking as many mallards as the SWD tends to assist them in taking.

Given a long season, liberal mallards limits, and SWD, these clubs can easily shoot 1000+ mallards in a season or maybe more.

So, for the basic mixed bag hunter, the SWD is prolly not a big deal.

But all hunters must be considered when looking at the big picture.

If SWD's are causing an unnatural imbalance in the duck world, they must ultimately go away.

mudhen - CA
 

benelliblaster

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Well said Mudhen. I really only hunt wister and I have used a spinner for several years. Since I might only take 1 mallard per year down there, I KNOW that i'm not hurting the mallard pop. As well as every other hunter out there with me. In my opinion, if the stats prove that ever since swd have been used that the mallard pop is declining, then maybe they should have zones throughout the state where they MAY be used(So.Cal) and MAY NOT be used (elsewhere in CA where they annually harvest a lot of mallards). Just my
. But as long as I can use them, I will, and this year they're going airborne on the vortex!
 

pitdog

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I say if it feels good, do it.
Ruben and I used them one day in my blind and they didn’t make a difference. Ruben is a world-class caller and that’s what made all the difference in the world. He was calling ducks from the flyway that were ½ a mile away. That guy can out call a 5yr old mallard hen.
If you ask me, a proper spread and a good caller should be enough. I’m not a “purest”, but I like it the old fashion way… calls and dekes.
I wouldn’t spend a penny on a SWD or any other gadget, (other than traditional gear) but if someone wants to give me a couple, I would use em.
 

Schoettgen

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Originally posted by BDG+Jul 27 2004, 10:11 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BDG @ Jul 27 2004, 10:11 AM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Schoettgen
@Jul 27 2004, 09:42 AM
Can you guys give me any good reasons not to give in and buy one?
Because if you buy one you will likely contribute to more restrictive seasons in the not so distant future. Because if you buy one you will help to shorten duck season. Pretty good reason if you ask me. [/b]
BDG , Maybe that is what needs to happen. I don't see Fish and Game in a hurry to do anything about them. Maybe we should all use them and speed up the inevitable. A shorter season or no Robo. From the places I have been it seems like everyone has one already. If there was a vote, I'm not so sure the robo crowd would junk the robo and take the longer season. They may just keep robo and go for the shorter season. The worst thing about the refuges is you can get crowded real easy and if everyone else has one and you don't , it can be a fruistrating day.
 

BDG

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Originally posted by Schoettgen@Jul 27 2004, 09:26 PM
BDG , Maybe that is what needs to happen.
It is happening right now........the numbers support a liberal framework, but we will almost certainly end up with a moderate one because of the condition of our local Mallard population. I've been up against Moto too many times to count......I've lost ducks to it just like anyone else who has spent ANY time at all hunting public.......because yes......they are EVERYWHERE. I agree that the F&G isn't in a hurry to do anything about it......that's why all we can do is make a personal choice based on what we feel is right.......based not on what we feel is going to help us kill more ducks......but based instead on what is best for ducks and what is best for the sport. Whether you take 1 Mallard a year or 100 doesn't matter.....you make a choice to be part of the problem or part of the solution every time you put one out. If you don't feel spinners are bad for the sport....well.....I can't blame you for using them. It's the guys who say they don't feel they are ethical and wish they were banned, but still flip a switch every morning in the marsh that need to step up to the plate.....show some restraint and lose the crutch.
 

benelliblaster

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[. Whether you take 1 Mallard a year or 100 doesn't matter.....you make a choice to be part of the problem or part of the solution every time you put one out.

If I'm only taking 1 mallard a year, and the main reason they want swd banned is because of large harvest rates on mallards, then how am I part of the problem?

Personally I feel they should make zones for the swd. This way everyone can stop
and get back to hunting.
 

Duck Fan

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Don't own one...don't use one.

I've stated my reasons for banning them on many previous posts so I won't go into it again. Everyone does have to make their own decision. One comment I would make for banning them is that we all got birds before 1998 when they were introduced. We can still get birds without them. I would like us to err on the conservative side and get rid of them. They are a substitute (for some) to those things I hold dear in water fowling (decoys placement, calling, concealment, etc).

Those not using them are no better than the guy that does. They are legal (now). I do feel that the USFWS will someday step in and, if they do, then shame on us for not handling this issue ourselves as hunters. I do believe that new hunters to our sport will benefit greatly in the long run if they learn the art of water fowling versus starting off by flipping a switch. That could lead a person to believe the only way to get a bird is with more technology…and that will lead us down a path I hope we never walk.

There are studies that show they are highly effective. Heck, that's what any decoy should do for you - right? You want effectiveness...so do I. I just don't want it at the possible expense of the future of the sport - for hunters or for those that see our entire sport as something to ban.

Benelliblaster: Not sure if your Vortex comment was tongue-in-cheek, but if you honestly are going to drag one to the refuge, god help you - that 12V battery alone might be "the straw that broke the camel's back"
 

benelliblaster

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DuckFan- I ain't worried about the 12V. My retriever is actually a camel, so I just strap it to him. It's great, needs no water and carries the heavy stuff!
 

BDG

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Originally posted by benelliblaster@Jul 28 2004, 07:47 AM
If I'm only taking 1 mallard a year, and the main reason they want swd banned is because of large harvest rates on mallards, then how am I part of the problem?
What happens when clubs that normally take nothing but green run out of Mallards to shoot?

I would say that the next duck to suffer will be the widgeon, as they seem very Moto stupid as well........what next? If we continue to pound the Mallards in areas that typically wouldn't yield a high mallard count it is going to put the stress on other ducks as well. If I smoke dope.....but I only do it a couple times a year......am I contributing to the drug problem in America?
 

Duck Fan

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benelliblaster

having a camel has to be great.............. one hump or two?

 

mouthcallinmatt1

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Originally posted by benelliblaster@Jul 27 2004, 08:13 PM
I really only hunt wister and I have used a spinner for several years.... But as long as I can use them, I will, and this year they're going airborne on the vortex!
benelli,
We've got to meet sometime. That way I can watch what site you pick and go the opposite direction. No offense to you but since I mostly hunt geese I'd hate to be next to that thing. I don't think they like them.
 

The Rumpot

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I would say that the next duck to suffer will be the widgeon, as they seem very Moto stupid as well......
Like I have said on previous posts, we've had widgeon try to land right on the spinning blade. (BTW, they don't care if it's battery or wind powered) And this year's count on widgeon is in the toilet. So it is already happening. Now what does that tell you?

Like someone said earlier, I'm not paying $ to just go watch someone else pound the pi$$ out of them because they have a spinner and I don't. I can watch ducks fly at the bird watching areas for free, and do sometimes.

Fall is strap time. . . time the fire the gun.

Show me a guy who does not want to fill up that strap - doing what it takes to get it done - and I'll show you a guy that probably wouldn't be that much fun to hunt with.


You can bird-watch them 365. Go 'head. It's free.
 

BDG

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Originally posted by The Rumpot@Jul 28 2004, 10:24 AM
Show me a guy who does not want to fill up that strap - doing what it takes to get it done - and I'll show you a guy that probably wouldn't be that much fun to hunt with.
That would be me......if there ever comes a time that I need a spinner to fill a strap......my strap will be empty. I only kill a dozen or so birds a year anyhow, so I figure it wouldn't make much difference......

BTW.......I'm a great guy to hunt with.......just ask my dog.
 

benelliblaster

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BDG- Damn, smoke only 2 times a year
? You have to be passionate about what you do and smoke 24/7,364. Step it up man.
And I said swd should be ZONED.So places that DO harvest many mallards will NOT be able to use a swd.

DuckFan- two humps for sure! Leaves a nice pocket in the middle to haul stuff.(he's a bitch to hide tho)


Mouthcallinmatt- don't worry about the almighty vortex
, half the time I go down there its for geese also. I love that place, and trust me, I would be the last guy at wister to ruin anyones day. Hey it might be good, all the skyscrapers won't have to scrape because all the ducks will be on the deck!

BTW,I know that I don't have to use a swd to have a good day in the marsh. I've had plenty of great days with no swd out at all.

Is it time to hunt yet?

BenelliBlaster
 

Russell

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Mudhen,

A little off the subject here....just outta' idle curiosity, which clubs in the Suisun Marsh are killin' 6 and 7 mallard averages with 1000 mallard plus seasons??

Seems a little HIGH for that area.
 

mouthcallinmatt1

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Originally posted by benelliblaster@Jul 28 2004, 12:25 PM
Hey it might be good, all the skyscrapers won't have to scrape because all the ducks will be on the deck!
I wish that were the case. The problem is they may be attracting the ducks to places they might not see as many and most of those guys don't have the patience to let them work anyway so when they are making their first 80+ yard pass...all hell breaks loose.

I've never used one but I've hunted next to people with them. Sometimes they seem to work and other times they don't but when they don't it's usually those days when the birds don't want to work anyone anyway. I'm against them mainly for the protection against future highly affective devices (anyone who says they weren't highly affective when allowed the entire season is a fool) and to help secure our maximum allowable days in the field. Future devices and season length should be enough for hunters to back a ban IMO.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Is it time to hunt yet?[/b]
I'm with you benelli...the season can't get hear soon enough for me.
 

Schoettgen

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I know what you mean Matt, I have seen them not work also but I sure hate to be a duck watcher when they are. I do know one thing , I killed more birds on the refuges before I was forced to compete with Robo. I wish they were gone. One option is to simply not hunt the public areas. But a one man anti Robo protest will have little affect on anyone but me. Hunting the public areas really is getting to be more of a hassle than its worth. Seems every year I hunt more and more upland and that is one of the reasons. I really do enjoy watching ducks work dekes. Fortunatly I have one small honey hole, almost all woodies and a few mallards. All you need is a couple of dekes, calls, a good dog, and enough rain mid year so it floods.
 

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