Mountain lion

karstic

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SongDog,

What do you do after you've built up a large collection of pelts? Canyou sell/ trade/barter with them? I thought I read somewhere in the Mammal Reg book that you can't sell game/game products with a Sport Hunting License.
 



songdog

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I'll sell/trade them at the end of the season.  For some, like bobcat, you need a trapping license and pay a ~$3.00 fee per pelt that you want to sell.  

I've said it before but... you're certainly not going to get rich or even make a living from this kind of stuff but it can normally pay for a new rifle at the end of a season or something like that.  I always have friends that want a pelt or two.  Someday, I'll save up enough bobcats to have a coat made for the Mrs.  5-6 coytoes make a really nice (and seriously warm) blanket for the back of the couch.  I'll tie flies with a lot of the hides that aren't the best quality.  I've always wondered what coyote leather would be like.  I've never done a hair off tanning before.  Could be interesting.  Make all kinds of fun stuff from the leather...
 

Frank

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Karstic,

You bring up a good, honest and difficult question.

First, I would say yes you are correct as a "needed" basis for predator control and I know areas that when coyote numbers are up, the quail, rabbitts & house pets go down. No doubt about it!

But that is as a "need" basis, not sport. So, my 2nd reason is, it's because I enjoy it. period!

3rd is, if one can accept this or not, it is in fact the most natural process of nature, perfectly normal if you will. Predators kill game for "sport" and often times do not eat their prey. This has been proven repeatedly, including wolves in Alaska on sheep.

And finally, I question one of your reason for "eating" your game as a "reason" to hunt. You will do drastically better "buying" your steaks at the market, than you will "hunting" for them.  Wether it is beef, bear, pork or venison steaks.

Hope this helps to convince you :)

Frank        
 

karstic

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Frank,

If hunting were the only way I put meat on the table I would starve. I enjoy the fruits of my labor so to speak. Hunting allows me to mesh two of my hobbies, shooting/firearms and the outdoors.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against predator hunting, matter a fact I am hoping to get to the Wister hunt to get an introduction to coyote hunting. Whenever i'm bring predator hunting up in conversation people ask me I would want to do such a thing if I won't/can't utilize the product of the hunt, ie the kill.
 

Frank

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Karstic,

No, honestly I understand and good points & questions you make that we should try and answer.

Another answer I give is, they are predators and predators are "destructive" (on almost everything).

I normaly do not get a response after that one.

Anyway, it's definitely a rush and folks that don't hunt just don't know what they're missing.

Good Hunting !

Frank
 

dazco

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Maybe i'm only justifying it in my mind, but the fact is that if i shoot a crow, there will probably be hundreds of other small birds and /or animals that will be born and live a normal full life that otherwise wouldn't. Crows eat bird eggs and baby birds. So you could say that failing to pound a few crows would make me a murderer of many other small birds. *S*

Ok, a bit of tounge in cheek. But the truth is that in our industrialized world, animal and bird populations are not what nature intended. The balance is out of whack compared what it would be if man had not created the cities and by-products thereof. So in hunting crows for example, we may actually bring the balance back closer to what it should be. In a way you might say we hunters are righting a wrong done by society in general to the balance of nature. And we have the DFG to regulate what species, and how much of that species can be taken in order to keep the balance more in line with the way nature intended. And what nature intended is that no one species would gain population to an extent that would jeopardise another.

So we actually do serve a purpose. Call it my way of justifying murder if you want. But the fact is that it's the way of the world.........of nature.
It's the development of civilized society that has created the idea that it is wrong. Does anyone really think that in the animal world there is any thought given as to whether it is right or wrong? And a few million years ago we weren't much more developed than the animals. But now we have the intelligence to develop ideas such as this, and it's a complicated issue that is very subjective.

I personally think that it is both right and wrong. It's up to the individual to decide whether it is right or wrong, and i don't feel that one person should tell another whether it is right or wrong. It's like religon.........believe what is right for you, but don't try to convert others just because your belief is different.

That said, i will continue to hunt certain creatures that i feel right in hunting. Those i don't feel good about i will leave alone. And i don't need a reason, just a gut feeling.
Just my opinion.

-Dale
 

RIFLEMAN

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Karstic,
    Frank brings up an excellent point...there is a need for it.  The mistake that most people (hunters and non-hunters) make is their assumption that the main purpose of wildlife management is to provide recreation.  I believe that if this was true, hunting would be under even great threat than it is today.  While animals are a renewable resource that can be managed for our use, the overall purpose of hunting is to manage the interactions of people, wildlife and the habitat that supports the two.  Politics aside, the underlying regulations put into effect do not have the best interests of the hunters in mind, but of the species those regulations protect.  With this in mind, the harvest of a segment of the population is the purpose of predator hunting, not the provision of sport or the acquisition of hides or carcasses.  
    The same argument can be made when evaluating how "sporting" the various methods of hunting are.  For example, the question of ethics should never fall into a logical discussion on the merits or baiting or hound hunting.  Regardless of whether or not one feels that they are sporting, so long as they help achieve the intended goals of the management of the species, they should be legal.  I am not saying that ethics doesn't have a place in our sport.  I am only saying that people should not view hunting in the jaded perspective that it is meant to provide us with recreation.  Avoiding this misconception will help our credibility with the public and hopefully keep us from the bickering within the hunting community.
 

Rimrock

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Aside from the enjoyment of the outdoors and matching wits with an animal, I will add another reason for preditor hunting. Most of the area I hunt is private cattle ranches. During calving season coyotes in particular congregate. One reason is to dine on the afterbirth because it is an easy meal. By the same token, a new born calf or a weak one is helpless and provides easy pickings. At daylight I have seen nothing but bones and hide where a live calf was the previous evening. I'v seen numerous calves with ears and tail chewed off. They were the lucky ones. For a rancher to lose a calf means that he has fed a cow a year for nothing. In addition, the loss of game birds and animals is enormous. No, I don't hunt for the joy of killing, but I feel no remorse in eliminating a coyote.

Play fair.
 

Terrierman

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I also enjoy hunting predators, but with using dogs or dog rather. Its very gratifying to watch a small dog breed specifically for this purpose work.
Alot, of the times these predators come into neighborhoods killing pets, not these pets.
 

nobuckkev

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I am an Arizona resident stationed here in San Diego with the NAvy. It is $25 for a big game hunting liscense and last year it was only $11 for a Mountain Lion tag in AZ. I can't figure out why the tree huggers do not want to kill lions here in California. I know the Fish and Game has to kill at least a few hundred a year to control the population. At least that is what I have heard before. Why not let us hunt them for them. There is actually a website for the California Mountain Lion Organization that is there to save the population. What a stupid club in my opinion. I am a bowhunter and state law says that you can not carry a firearm while bowhunting. I have seen many a track near my treestand but have yet to run into one in the woods, thank god. I am not sure what the outcome will be the day that I do run into one while sitting in my stand.
 

RIFLEMAN

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nobuckkev,

How much for a nonresident lisence and tag?  I've heard from someone on another forum that the lion season is open year round.  Is that true?
 

wildbirdhunter

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I asked DFG biologist one time about running into Mtn lions when out hunting. After being told that most of the time you may never know he was there if you do by some luck see him most of the time just letting him know your not a normal food item (stand up yelling and waving your hands) will send them packing. Now the Key word is most a small and growing number will not. I wish some of the tree huggers would come out to the woods more often to see the really of what is happening. As for the MPS and the ban on hunting them it may come down to a law suite being filed or and god forbid kids being killed and eaten before any thing is really done.   It really is funny that it is OK for the DFG to kill a Lion that is going after live stock and humans but when it come to the Bighorn Sheep being almost wiped out by them no way no how can you control the lion population. After all ones something is on the endangers species list it never is coming (just another way to end hunting) even if the facts show the number are too high.  Hay nobuckkev are you going to come out to the Wister hunt? It would be cool to have  some of you bow hunters out there
 


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