Mounting Fresnal Lens

ToddP

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I use the RS PIR and in the past I always just cut out a rectangle and mounted the PIR so it looked out.  Time to move on.  What's a good way to mount the PIR so it's just a circle with the fresnal lense glued in.  What kind of glue should I use?  How do you mount the sensor and board to the measurement you need it away from your lense?

Thanks,
Todd
 



INshedpicker

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The way I've done all mine is this:  I used Pelican 1120 cases, so this may only apply to setups with a hinged door on the front.  With the fresnel lense secured to the door of the case (with a combination of silcone and hot glue), I simply put the rest of the RS PIR (still in its case) in the Pelican surrounded with foam so that when the door is closed, the front of the case is snug to the lense.  The distance from lense to PIR is close enough.  Removing the speaker from the RS allows the board to slide forward a bit more, which offsets most of the change when the lense is outside the PIR case.

Hope that all made sense, holler if you want a picture.
 

jayber

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I've been using the Lexan boxes and have a template made for all the hole locations.  I use a 1" hole saw for the PIR.  I mount the lens, smooth side out, with silicone.  I rough it up some first around the edges that meet the box.  Push the silicone out from the center, put a small weight on to hold it down, and silicone liberally around the edges.

I use the MS20 and leave it in the housing, minus lid, and glue it directly to a middle divider/shelf that I make.
 

bat

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I do about the same thing as msfelton but I mount it in the RS mount by gluing the mount to the bottom of my enclosure.  The pir housing is not very flat on the bottom so I mount it this way.  To get the distance for the mounting I just measure the offset of the inside of the enclosure door and mount the RS PIR housing sticking out this amount..about a 1/2" for the Pelican 1120  I also cut the speaker out to allow adjustment like msfelton, I cut a hole for the switch (chime/alarm) and cut most of the back out of the housing for wiring and helping to adjust the board.  bat
 

hamiltoe

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ToddP,
I've found that double sided carpet tape that you get from Home Depot or Lowe's works great to "glue" the PIR lens to the pelican cases.  I had one cam get submerged for 4 days when a creek flooded.  The cam survived!  The carpet tape held up well!  Although some water did seep in from the LED and switches and corroded everything, the cam is still operational.
 

Terrell

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I HAVE USED THE MS20 IN A COUPLE OF MY CAMS. I LEAVE IT IN THE HOUSING IT CAME WITH. I TAKE A 2" PEICE OF 1" DIAMETER PVC PIPE. I GLUE THE PVC TO THE FRESNEL LEN USING HOT GLUE. CUT A 1 1/2" HOLE IN YOU HOUSING AND INSERT THE MS20 AND GLUE IN PLACE. FOR A WIDER DETECTION RANGE YOU CAN CUT THE PVC BCAK A LITTE AT A TIME. TRY THAT.
 

IAbowhunter

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I've been reading all the posts and ideas about mounting the lens (pir) inside the case, I hope you guys keep up the threads and keep giving me ideas about what do!!! You know This is one of the greatests sites in the World!!!
 

ToddP

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Do you guys put some silicon around the edge of your circle on the outside of the case to seal it off some more?  Or do you just use it on the inside to mount the fresnal lense?

Thanks for the info,
Todd
 

Hill Hopper

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Todd, hadn't posted on this earlier, but thought I'd contribute.

I use silicone to glue ANYTHING penitrating the case. What I do on the glass and the fresnal lens is glue a quarter to the outside face of either with "Tacky Glue" which will remain plyable for about 30 min., then silicone around the inside of the hole, and push the glass or lens up against it with the quarter going thru the hole. This makes silicone penitrate and ooze out the hole. Then I clean up and smooth out the silicone on the outside with a q-tip. After that, I pop off the quarter and let the silicone cure. Once its cured, the tacky glue is soluble in water, so I clean off the dried glue with warm water and a q-tip. Everything is water tight, and no silicone mess on the fresnal lens.

Sounds involved, but really isn't.
 

jayber

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I apply approx. 1/8" bead around the hole on the inside approx. 1/8" away.  More is applied a bit thicker approx. 1/4" from where the edges would be.  Then line up the lens about where you want it and work the silicone starting at the hole.  I push some of the silicone inward first so that some squeezes out the hole edge.  You can blend it some afterwards from the outside if you like.  Wet your finger and it's less likely to stick to it.  Then I work the silicone outward.  When it squeezes out the lens edges, I feather it back over.  Sometimes I apply more over the outside edges depending on how much has come out.  You don't need 100% coverage, but if you get a good seal at the hole and lens edges it usually is enough.  About lining up the lens, I use reference marks on my lens and box so that I don't have to slide it around a lot once it makes contact with the silicone.  If you need to remove excess from your lens at the hole opening, I've found that if you let it set up some and have the smooth side out it works best.  I hope this made sense and good luck!
 

pietromarc

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I tested my Radio Crack PIR a few nights ago unglued but in my metal electical housing and it tested out Ok, out to 25 feet in my house on my dog. we'll last night i glued everything up using silacone, the PIR is in its front half shell(speaker still mounted) glued flush to the lid  and the lens is glued (smooth side out) to the lid also. The PIR now doesn't trigger out to more than 10 feet???? What could it be?? Does the Battery leads(9vt Lith) length have any affect on proformance, they are currently about 5.5" long.and how about Battery power? will a 12v  increase my range?:confused-yellow:
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Pietromarc,

Read this post

Fresnal Lens Allignment

The RS seems to be really sensitive to allignment,  Really sensitive.  Raise your arms above your head and see if it is shooting over your head.  A little up and down or left and right can make a big difference in Range too. The Rs is pretty good on batteries so that is probably not it.  Its really easy to swap them out so Try that first.  It wont be the leads
 

pietromarc

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ToddP  



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I use the RS PIR and in the past I always just cut out a rectangle and mounted the PIR so it looked out.  Time to move on.  What's a good way to mount the PIR so it's just a circle with the fresnal lense glued in.  What kind of glue should I use?  How do you mount the sensor and board to the measurement you need it away from your lense?

Thanks,
Todd  

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Posted on: 5:31 am on June 11, 2002 | IP  

msfelton



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The way I've done all mine is this:  I used Pelican 1120 cases, so this may only apply to setups with a hinged door on the front.  With the fresnel lense secured to the door of the case (with a combination of silcone and hot glue), I simply put the rest of the RS PIR (still in its case) in the Pelican surrounded with foam so that when the door is closed, the front of the case is snug to the lense.  The distance from lense to PIR is close enough.  Removing the speaker from the RS allows the board to slide forward a bit more, which offsets most of the change when the lense is outside the PIR case.

Hope that all made sense, holler if you want a picture.

-----
Y'all come back!  

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Posted on: 6:18 am on June 11, 2002 | IP  

jayber



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I've been using the Lexan boxes and have a template made for all the hole locations.  I use a 1" hole saw for the PIR.  I mount the lens, smooth side out, with silicone.  I rough it up some first around the edges that meet the box.  Push the silicone out from the center, put a small weight on to hold it down, and silicone liberally around the edges.

I use the MS20 and leave it in the housing, minus lid, and glue it directly to a middle divider/shelf that I make.

-----
Stalk Softly.....And Carry a Quick Stick  

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Posted on: 7:47 am on June 11, 2002 | IP  

bat



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I do about the same thing as msfelton but I mount it in the RS mount by gluing the mount to the bottom of my enclosure.  The pir housing is not very flat on the bottom so I mount it this way.  To get the distance for the mounting I just measure the offset of the inside of the enclosure door and mount the RS PIR housing sticking out this amount..about a 1/2" for the Pelican 1120  I also cut the speaker out to allow adjustment like msfelton, I cut a hole for the switch (chime/alarm) and cut most of the back out of the housing for wiring and helping to adjust the board.  bat

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Time, Opportunity, Weather, Smooth Shooting Skill, Knowledge of our Great Outdoors, a lot of Good Luck and a Fine ''HOMEBREW CAMERA'' makes for a Quality Experience Outdoors!  

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Posted on: 8:05 am on June 11, 2002 | IP  

hamiltoe


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ToddP,
I've found that double sided carpet tape that you get from Home Depot or Lowe's works great to "glue" the PIR lens to the pelican cases.  I had one cam get submerged for 4 days when a creek flooded.  The cam survived!  The carpet tape held up well!  Although some water did seep in from the LED and switches and corroded everything, the cam is still operational.

-----
Hamiltoe    
Web site:www.fieldpix.com
Web site:http://hamiltoe.home.netcom.com/X10_TrailCam.htm  

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Posted on: 5:23 pm on June 11, 2002 | IP  

Terrell



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I HAVE USED THE MS20 IN A COUPLE OF MY CAMS. I LEAVE IT IN THE HOUSING IT CAME WITH. I TAKE A 2" PEICE OF 1" DIAMETER PVC PIPE. I GLUE THE PVC TO THE FRESNEL LEN USING HOT GLUE. CUT A 1 1/2" HOLE IN YOU HOUSING AND INSERT THE MS20 AND GLUE IN PLACE. FOR A WIDER DETECTION RANGE YOU CAN CUT THE PVC BCAK A LITTE AT A TIME. TRY THAT.  

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Posted on: 7:21 pm on June 11, 2002 | IP  

IAbowhunter



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I've been reading all the posts and ideas about mounting the lens (pir) inside the case, I hope you guys keep up the threads and keep giving me ideas about what do!!! You know This is one of the greatests sites in the World!!!

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ALWAYS IN THE HUNT  

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Posted on: 9:57 pm on June 11, 2002 | IP  

ToddP  



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Do you guys put some silicon around the edge of your circle on the outside of the case to seal it off some more?  Or do you just use it on the inside to mount the fresnal lense?

Thanks for the info,
Todd  

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Posted on: 5:20 am on June 13, 2002 | IP  

******



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Todd, hadn't posted on this earlier, but thought I'd contribute.

I use silicone to glue ANYTHING penitrating the case. What I do on the glass and the fresnal lens is glue a quarter to the outside face of either with "Tacky Glue" which will remain plyable for about 30 min., then silicone around the inside of the hole, and push the glass or lens up against it with the quarter going thru the hole. This makes silicone penitrate and ooze out the hole. Then I clean up and smooth out the silicone on the outside with a q-tip. After that, I pop off the quarter and let the silicone cure. Once its cured, the tacky glue is soluble in water, so I clean off the dried glue with warm water and a q-tip. Everything is water tight, and no silicone mess on the fresnal lens.

Sounds involved, but really isn't.

-----
Butch  

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Posted on: 5:31 am on June 13, 2002 | IP  

jayber



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I apply approx. 1/8" bead around the hole on the inside approx. 1/8" away.  More is applied a bit thicker approx. 1/4" from where the edges would be.  Then line up the lens about where you want it and work the silicone starting at the hole.  I push some of the silicone inward first so that some squeezes out the hole edge.  You can blend it some afterwards from the outside if you like.  Wet your finger and it's less likely to stick to it.  Then I work the silicone outward.  When it squeezes out the lens edges, I feather it back over.  Sometimes I apply more over the outside edges depending on how much has come out.  You don't need 100% coverage, but if you get a good seal at the hole and lens edges it usually is enough.  About lining up the lens, I use reference marks on my lens and box so that I don't have to slide it around a lot once it makes contact with the silicone.  If you need to remove excess from your lens at the hole opening, I've found that if you let it set up some and have the smooth side out it works best.  I hope this made sense and good luck!

-----
Stalk Softly.....And Carry a Quick Stick  

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Posted on: 5:43 am on June 13, 2002 | IP  

pietromarc


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I tested my Radio Crack PIR a few nights ago unglued but in my metal electical housing and it tested out Ok, out to 25 feet in my house on my dog. we'll last night i glued everything up using silacone, the PIR is in its front half shell(speaker still mounted) glued flush to the lid  and the lens is glued (smooth side out) to the lid also. The PIR now doesn't trigger out to more than 10 feet???? What could it be?? Does the Battery leads(9vt Lith) length have any affect on proformance, they are currently about 5.5" long.and how about Battery power? will a 12v  increase my range?

-----
pmc  

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Posted on: 7:43 am on June 13, 2002 | IP  

ArkansasElkHunter


Thanks for responding.
What kind of range should i realisticly expect indooors from the RS PIR? and should i remove the speaker?
 

jayber

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pietromarc,
First, welcome to the board!  Now, back when I used the RS PIR, I was getting ~18-22 yards depending on the conditions.  I only tried one and I believe the rough side of the lens was facing out and lying flat.  What way was the lens when you tested it before gluing, the same as it is currently or opposite?  Regarding the speaker, I removed it, but I'm not sure it's necessary as long as it's disconnected and sealed up.

(Edited by jayber at 10:42 am on June 13, 2002)
 

pietromarc

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jayber
Thanks, this forum is the best!

I set up the PIR the same way before i glued it, I can't  figure it out? the shinny side is facing out, i can still slightly see the curl in the lens which means its mounted right(i think)the soldered side of the circuit board is very  close to the metal housing case. could this be it?  20yard range? i would be very  very happy with that.
 

MCinIL

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pietromarc, toddp, I have always just measured a spot to make the hole and drill a smaller one than needed and then use a knock out punch or step bit to make it centered of the sensor. I am making the holes 7/8 dia. and put the sensor about the same away from the lens and I am getting about 35 feet with it. I have been using 2 part epoxy and sofar with sanding the box down before applying the glue it seems to be working fine. Before I glue the sensor I move it around and see which spot is the most sensitive and have it taped in place. I then mark the lens position and glue it in place. If you notice the RS lens it has round circles in the center of each line. I try to put one of those directly in front of the sensor. Sorry for the long post but I tried to explain it best I could. Hope this helps. MC.
My Cam
 

Handcannon

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Hi fellas, I haven't posted much but have built several cams thanks to this board in the last nine months, don't know if anyone else has tried this or not, go outside in the sun  with your fresnel lens and point it towards the sun with a dark piece of cardboard or something similar approximately 1" away and you will see tiny spots,those will be your focus points for each area in your fresnel array then notice how these "spots" change with the distance of your cardboard to fresnel lens. Because it can change so much with such little movement I make my PIR boards adjustable in and out,and my fresnel lenses adjustable up and down until it performs the way I want it to before sealing up the lense. Good Luck.
 

pietromarc

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I am back guys.
Last night i took my RS PIR out of the housing and reassembled it like it was purchased from the shelf from Radio Shack, then it seemed to work again(18 yards of range). after that i reinstalled the the PIR in my housing with the Lens flat and smooth side out  and then the plactic half shell directly behing that, ALL Unglued at this POINT!! and PIR work still out to 18yards. But when i glued everything up the Range droped instantly to 10FEET??? Does any one think that the fumes from the Permatex Silicone glue is affecting the Sensor? because this is the only thing i can think of.
:nope-blue:
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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I doubt the silicone is affecting the sensor,  A little movement will go a long way regarding the sensor.  even a 1/16 of an inch was giving me fits the other night too.  I diddn't know what was worn.  finally I got it in the right spot and marked the spot.  works great now
 

Passthru

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 On my last cam i cut a 1" circle in the lid for the lens,i RTVed it to the lid from the inside.I used the RS sensor and bought the smallest hobby box that the PIR would fit in(i had to do some cutting to get it in the small box.) then i cut a large hole in the hobby box for the PIR to look out of and a hole in the back for all the wires to come out,i filled my Camera enclosure with foam and cut a hole in the foam for the hobby box to fit in.when i close the enclosure lid the foam pushes the hobby box with the sensor up aginst the Fresnal lens tight,this seemed to be a good distance and centered well all my triggers are out to about 40'.
 If i get a chance to take a pic i will. i used the highlander box.
 


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