MS20 5v relay

ArkansasElkHunter

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You guy's ought to be ashamed.  I thought this was all going to help my hunting, but today I spent the day in my shop.  The weather was perfect for a late season bow hunt, but there I am, trying to play electronics.  Man this stuff is addicting,  

I havent got all my parts to build a cam yet, but I have a modified sensor sitting on the bar with a 6 volt light blinking everytime the kids go buy.  I have been reading for the past week, information overload, and this is my first post.  I will be using the ms20 with 6v 4ah battery ($7.5 at All Electrioncs) so power is not an issue.  My sensor has been working all day and ocasionaly the relay (RS232 reed) will stick.   I can remove power from the PIR and the light wont go off. These reeds seem a little touchey.   Does anyone know the part# for a 5 volt that that will fit the ms20 board or will the 9 volt (275-005) work with 6v.  Someone said that the ms20 drops the voltage to the relay to 5 volts.  Doesn't this keep the 9v relay from working.

Thanks for the help' I am electronicaly challenged.   This is a great site.  If I don't get fired or divorced, I'm going to have a lot of fun

-----
Arkansas Elk Hunter,
It's hard to kill a big one when your draggin a little one!
 

Possum

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Try 275-232 5v reed.  Take a look at what Tinhorn has posted here:   http://content.communities.msn.com/JessesT...xs1.msnw?Page=4

It will save you time and cut down on the MS20's power consumption an little.  if you are using a 6v lantern battery you will be getting 100+ days by my calculation (depends on how many times the animal sets the relay off).
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Thanks for the reply.

I'm using the RS 275-232 built just lihe tinhorns picture.  My soldering skills arn't that great yet so I am willing to sacrifice silent operation for now and go with one of the electro-mechanical like the rs275-005.  I'm also a little worried about my sticking rs-275-232.  Its seen a lot of action today.  Probably over 50% tripped and now it won't unstick at all unless I leave power off for 30 Mins.  I will replace it on monday.

Does anyone know about the RS275-005 (9V) with the 6V Batts.
 

wfontjr

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6 volts will not trip a 9v relay

(Edited by wfontjr at 8:02 pm on Jan. 19, 2002)
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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I just read again where tinhorn and others talk about the "relay driver circuit" droping the voltage to the relay on the ms20 from input (9 or 12) voltage down to 5 or 6 volts.  Anyone tried the 275-005 with a ms20 and a 6 volt power source.  

I know i read on here sonewhere somebody telling about a 5 volt relay that would fit the board on the ms20 like the 9 volt rs 275-005.  It wasn't through RS or All Elec.  seems like it started with a "C".  

I have been reading threads and doing searches for 4  hours now and still can't find it.  If anyone can help I'll be eternaly grateful!!!!
 

davered1

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maybe try to replace the 232 with another 232 if you are new at soldering you might have some loose conectons or something.The first cam I built I messed with that relay so much I ended up with a relay that was always closed,sounds like yours is headed that way.

Check all soldering and replace relay.

Oh yeah,take a day off and get out with your bow.

good luck
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Thanks,  if RS is open on Sunday I'll get a new one tomarrow.  

Still looking for the tread with the other relay.  

I just finished a new flat bow 70" knock to knock shoots like a dream at 62lbs and 192fps.  That doesn't sound very fast next to a mathews, but it's a lot of fun to shoot.  Been trying to get close enough to a deer for the last two weeks to break it in with.  
 

homer

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ArkansasElkHunter, Those deer are not going to shoot them selves. That camera will be there after the season is closed and its going to be a long winter. Good luck with the relay, I think you should stay with the(232) if or going to use the 6 Vdc battery.                       Homer
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Yea I know.

I ordered all my components from All Electronics and they had the 6 volt 4ah for $7.5.  We bought enough for 6 cams and shipping was only $6.  $13.98 per camera includes everything but the MS20, Case and Camera.  I can order the Owl PF from my local camera store for $40.  With a pelican case from cases-4-less, I will have $76.38 per cam before timers.  (wow, who'd have thunk it)

I know we need a 2stage timer and I want a refresh, but I am going to have to learn a little more first.  Thought I would get them working and then go back and add the timers

All I had read on here (hours and hours) led me to believe the ms20 with 6v would be as good and inexpensive as anything.

I also want to try the digital version someday to get away from the recuring cost of film developing so the additional battery capacity is in my long range plan.  I guess the guys who have 10 to 14 in the field must have a darkroom or a bank handy. hehe
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Forgot to say again,  sure would like to find that relay that fits.  I just can't find the post that I read about it in.
 

Tinhorn

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A'Elk'H

If the relays you use draw more than 20 ma's then you'll have to change R28 (100K) on the MS20 board to make those relays work....

for instance, if the Relay Coil Draws 70ma's, R28 will have to be changed to 8.2K or maybe 6.2K, something line that, to increase the Transistor Relay Driver's power ......

Also, on some prior post, I must have  been UNCLEAR on the MS20 board only needing a 5v relay, no matter what the battery voltage is.  While it's true the MS20's electronics does run on 5volts, the relays are connected directly to the Battery (only the electronics runs on 5volts!)

so, unless a dropping resistor is used in series with a 5v relay coil, the relay coil's voltage has to match the battery voltage.

I can calculate the dropping resistor to put in series withe a 5v relay if anybody wants me too.  I'd need to know the relay coil required current to do this.  If it's the RS 5v Reed, the coil requires 20ma's......

:litebulb:

Tinhorn
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Thanks Tinhorn,   Just got back from church and Radio Shack.  I'm gonna go put the new RS232 in the circuit.  I'm gonna try using 22 gage Solid wire this time instead of stranded.  had a lot of trouble holding the wire against the contacts last time while i soldered.  I think I overloaded the relay circuit yesterday.  I needed something besides a volt meter to play around with range so I hooked in a 6v light out of an old emergency light.  Probably around 20 watts.  if my math is right thats 3.2 amps.  probably fused the contacts.  please remember I'm electronicaly challenged.
 

Tinhorn

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Just for the heck of it, I measured the current of a 6v lantern type flashlight.....  it was  1.2 amps

Tinhorn
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Tinhorn,  my emergency light was one of those battery back-up versions with emergency lighting.  I replaced the bulbs with some for car interiors and made a neat little test station for testing the pir modules.  Quick connects for power and sensor output .  Builtin lights that come on when the pir is tripped and comes complete with 6vdc battery and a charger.  The rs232 i put in today has been working perfectly all day.

question:  when i first hooked it up the relay would not make.  I'm getting 3.58 volts across the coil when the pir is tripped.  Is this normal with the 6 volt set-up or have i screwed up the module.  I ended up shorting across the relay contacts (not coil)a couple of times and its been working great since.  still kindof worries me about the slow startup.  gona let it sit all night and try it in the Morning  

Found a link for Goodsky who makes the OEM relay in the MS20 the have a 6Volt but it draws 60ma.  is that too much too.  how much will the ms20 pull without modification.  Diddnt know till now what anything but the Ohm setting was for on my meter but i may have to get me one of those amp thingies

http://www.goodsky.com/product/e_prod_f.htm
 

Tinhorn

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ArkansasElkHunter,

Your Test Jig sounds neat, you'd be able to test range, etc of the pir's real easy with that setup.  I did some experimenting on the MS20 a while back and had a similiar rig setup up but I had clip leads and relays and battery's jumbled up all over the place, sort of looked like one of those Bait Cast Reels after my 1st cast.....

I think I got about 3.5 volts across the coil too but I only built one MS20 with the relay, all the others use a 10K resistor and trigger a TLC555 Timer off the resistor.  The TLC555's output is only 3.5 volts when using a 6v battery tho and they drive the 5v Reed Relay directly and never had any troubles with it not tripping!

I experimented with the MS20 a little, checking it's drive and I think 20ma's was about it without changing that resistor (R28)

I doubt the MS20 would pull in a 60ma relay without changing R28's value but it'd be no big deal to do that....   But, it's also no big deal to use one of RS's 5v Reed Relays either

Tinhorn
 

mxnut

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ArkansasElkHunter,

Aromat makes a 5 volt version of that relay. Their part number is JS1A-5V. DigiKey has them, part number 255-1106-ND, for $1.15. The only problem is that they have a coil resistance of 70 ohms. This means that you will have to change R28 like Tinhorn said to get enough current to trip the relay. I have a couple of these relays and I'll test one tonight to see if it will work.

mxnut
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Mxnut,  Thanks, I knew they were out there, just couldn't find um.  I would be very interested in knowing what R value would  increase the amp output.

Tinhorn,  Thanks again for your help.  I have decided to go ahead and try the twostage timer with the refresh circuit after I get the first one built.  That way I won't have to worry about the relay on the pir board.  Had some trouble today from my second relay and found a bad connection.  Is the 232 pretty robust, you seem to really like them.  I am probably taking my inefficiencies out on them but I'm kinda spooked.  I'm a "just another half turn...oops" sort of guy and don't know anything about electronics.


I read an old thread today about a second stage timer that wouldnt allow another pic while there was still movement.  Do you use it?  Could work for or against you at a feeder, I guess.  
 

Tinhorn

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Actually I much prefer the MS20 over the RS PIR,  I did some "check-out" work on a RS PIR ShrtCkt sent me to study, but I only did that for the guys on the forum.  I've built over a dozen cams and all have the MS20's

I will do some more work on the RS PIR, checking range, etc like Gun Docc already did and may end up using this one on the next cam, just for experience

The MS20 has 2 modes, a TEST and AUTO.  the test mode triggers for 4 seconds anytime movement is sensed but the Auto Mode will take one pix and "reset" if it see's more movement before 1.5 minutes is up and not take a pix until it don't sense movement for 1.5 min's  (hard to say)

An automatic, built in feature.......

I'd use the JoeD timer if I was you (if you want a timer)

Tinhorn
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Tinhorn, you recommend the Joed timer over the tinhorn.  Is that because it's easier or better.  Isn't it just a single stage. I'm after easy and cheap, but i don't want to sacrifice functionality or performance to get it.  

I hunt on Fort Chaffee Military base.  Lots of hunting pressure.  Guys have had their stands stolen between dark and daylight the next morning, while back at the truck for lunch, etc.  Still some of the biggest and best hunting around and only 5 minutes from the house.  I would cry about loosing $100, but at least it wont be $350.

 I have a very active feeder in the back yard and would like test there but don't want the camera to lock up .  I ment the 275-232 relay not the rs pir.  I like the price of the ms20 to much to switch.  

I think i have read almost every post on this forum and i don't remember any testing on how the distance of the fresnal to the sensor and how that ma relate to sensitivity.  I recall lots of chat on the ms20 being too sensitive.  I don't want to reinvent the wheel, but that might be a cheap way to tone them down a bit. I'm getting 75 feet and almost 140 degrees.  
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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just read my last post again.  Sounds like I might be slamming a timer.  Not how I ment it at all.  Just trying to soak this all in and deside what is best for me.  Hats off to all the inovators.
 

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