MS20 vs. RS PIR?

Cabin Fever Bob

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I thought I was all set with my decision to use the RS PIR on my cam but now I'm wondering...

From my understanding so far, I wanted to use the RS PIR because it uses less power and I think it's less noticable as it mounts inside the housing kind of flush. The downside is the price but considering it uses less power than the MS20 I won't be going through batteries so often saving money there.

I was reading some old posts(40+ pages ago) and came across an interesting comparison between the MS20 and RS PIR's that made me stop and rethink my decision. http://www.jesseshuntingpage.com/cgi-bin/i...1&topic=689  Does the RS sensor miss more things than the MS20? Have any of you noticed the same thing??
 



Hill Hopper

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My personal experience is that the MS20 is more sensitive than the RS PIR. It can easily be mounted inside too. With either, there is no problem mounting the board and lens seperate from the original housing. This is just my own openion, but if you primarily use your cam 4-6 months a year, or are not running SEVERAL cams, battery usage is not that big a deal between the 2. I personally also do not like the RS Fesnal Lens.

Butch
 

Tinhorn

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I'm glad you went back and looked for all the posts on the MS20 vs RSPIR's, now you're the expert     As you noticed, we've kicked the pro's & con's around quite a bit.

I've used MS20's in all my cams (a bunch) except one, and this one has the RS PIR and never been in the woods yet, so I really don't have any "field" personal comparison experience's.  The MS20 does have a lot of false alarms, esp'ly in the summer but it don't miss much.  The RS apparently misses some animals (esp'ly low to ground animals I think ) but I gather that most pix's it does take has an animal.

But I wouldn't base my decision on Battery Efficiency alone.  I already made a post on batteries and the 2 PIRs, maybe you seen it, and won't go into much detail again but a $7 - 6v lantern battery lasts close to 6 months or 4 "C" cells last approx 5 months using the MS20.

Tinhorn
 

TNDEERHUNTER

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I have never used the MS20,I use the RS PIR and it is more sensitive than I want. I always mount it a little less than 3/4" away from the fresnal lense and this gives me about 35' to 40' sensing distance. I still get pics of coons, squirrels and other small animals. I don't get any bird pics though(I do get turkeys). So if your wanting to get bird pics you might want to go with the ms20. The reason I back the sensor up is because with the factory distance I have tested it out to 55' to 60' and my flash only works out to about 35' and I was getting night pics that the animals were to far to see what they were.LOL
 

JoelM

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I have only used the ms20 sensor but have been happy with it's performance so far.
I found it fairly easy to modify with my non existent soldering experience.  I have a NoN Typical trail camera I bought comercially. The ms20 seems to be more sensitive than the store unit.

I hope this helps.

Joel
 

Cabin Fever Bob

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From what I have read, the RS PIR gets a little squirrelly during times of high heat(90's) and sub-freezing temps(20's) and the sensor ability is limited to ~15'. I also read that this sensor is actually made for indoor use which explains why it can be "temperamental" in extreme temps. One other thing that I made a note of while reading past threads that I thought was strange is that it doesn't function all that well on "bright sunny days"? True?? Does that relate back to the high heat thing??

I don't recall reading anything as to how the MS20 performs under the same conditions(high heat/sub freezing temps), experiences?? I did read that this sensor is made for use outdoors though.  

I'm really leaning towards using the RS PIR mainly because it isn't as big and noticable as the MS20's look on a cam(to tresspassers) with that big white thing sticking out. I would like to get my concerns paciffied before dumping $25 for each sensor that I plan on buying(2 - OUCH!).

If you guys don't think that what I've read is really accurate, please let me know as I'm getting anxious to get started and get things bought/ordered. That is once I FINALLY get my mind made up as to what I want to use! LOL
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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Bob,

This post already points out the obvious.  Cheap electonics behave a little different even though they are all sopposed to be the same.  I know of people getting out to 60' with the RS pir and you site reading about 15" max.  We all can only relate about our own limited amout of experiance and report what we think we observe.  I just read the post you reference and it talks about the MS20 giving more false pics than the RS.   You will be happy with either sensor you go with.  as far as exterior mounting goes, mount the thing inside the box out of it's housing.  there are several good cheap($0.65) methods tried and true.  I like the MS20.  greater sensitivity, better fresnal lens(just my openion), cheaper, and tinhorn solved the retrigger issue I diddnt like.  I use a timer with it.  The only thing the RS has over the ms20 is the low profile if you are going for the microcam.  

Jump in and start swiming.  Its not deep enough to drown
 

Tinhorn

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Robert, I bet you don't stop at <font size="3">TWO</font> - LOL

ALL PIR's have trouble in the summer time, not just the RS model, especially on hot, windy days.  I don't know about the RS but the MS20 works fine in the winter time tho....  "Coyote" get's pix's at -35 degrees (frost on the Lens is his problem) but I'm not sure what PIR he uses...

I'm sure you know that the purpose of the Furnace Thermostat is to shutdown the Cam in the middle part of the day, during the summer, when the problem (false alarms) is the worst.  When the temp cools off, it's probaby getting late and there won't (hopefully) be so many false alarms or it's still early morning and the sun ain't heated up the day much, yet.  I havent tried the thermostat yet but got one and plan too....

If I were you, I'd plan on only building the cams one at a time, not simultanioulsy, make one, test it, etc. then you can make some changes to the 2nd (& the 3rd, the 4th, 5th, 6th, etc)

Tinhorn
 

INshedpicker

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Does the RS miss more animals?  The design of the RS fresnel lense does not give as much ground coverage as the MS20, so smaller animals may pass underneath the detection area, but either sensor will give you all the range you need.  If you don't want to spend money on film and processing an rolls of squirrels and raccoons, you may save money with the RS.  And it will work fine in cold temps.  As Tinhorn said, all PIR's are affected by hot weather.  

Don't complicate things any more than they already are.  Stick with your original plans to use the RS.
 

wvhunter

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I use the RS (I have not used the MS20 yet) and have had great results with it.  Coons and such do trip the sensor (sometimes too much).  Mine has worked fine in temps in the single digit and well up into the 90's.  The range will shorten dramaticaly in hot weather but I haven't had trouble with false triggers in high temps, but I don't put my cams on field edges much.  I like the 30-35 foot range of the RS cause most every picture you can see the animal and not just a dot that is something but you can't tell what, this is especially true on night pictures where even the flash of the PF will only reach about 30 feet.  Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.
 

coyotebandit

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Someone awhile back, had posted a picture of a mouse chewing on a shed antler taken with the RS PIR. I don't know if anyone wants a mouse to be able set off their PIR, but I don't think I do. So I don't really know if it less sensitive than the MS20. I think it may partially depend on the fresnel lens and how it is positioned. I'll try doing a search on it, but I think it might have been "yotee".
 

Tinhorn

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CB,

It was Coyote who got that pix, u're rite but I don't remember if he used an RS PIR or not.  

You may be right, it's probably the fresnel lens of the RS PIR making it less sensitive.  Most Fresnel Lenses I looked at looked all the same, rows and columns of individual lens.  

Each row of lenses has a pattern that looks down a little, which lessons the distance but also picks up animals on the ground.  Actually, the top row looks straight out, way over 40' on the mS20.  The Middle Row looks down a little but reaches 20' and the bottom row looks down even more and reaches about 8' or so. (blanketing the area pretty well)

The RS is the only one I've ever seen with a single row, but it's designed to pick up upright humans as they enter a room so it's understandable.  At any rate, the results are the same if the Fresnel Lens makes it less sensitive then it's less sensitive.  

But most who have the RS PIR are satisfied and most who have the MS20 or some other PIR are satisfied so it boils down to just a matter of opinion or skill in modifying one I guess.

They all get the job done.....

Tinhorn  
 

Cabin Fever Bob

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I was checking out a friends Cam Trakker today and noticed that they have a thin black mesh screen over their PIR so that the white sensor isn't as noticable. Has anyone tried this or done anything similar to camo the white sensor at all? I wonder if they can be ordered with other colors? Might be worth a call to the manufacturer?
 

Cabin Fever Bob

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Thanks for the link! Does anyone know if Fresnel Technogogies has one that will fit the MS20's or do they need to be modified? I would really like to use a color other than white!
 

Archilochus

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Hi CFB,
FresnelTech has all the specs for their lenses on the site.  You can check the specs for sizes and detection patterns.
They do have a 30US$ minimum order though  -  ******... you reading this?? - sounds like a new product line :)

Archilochus
 

Hill Hopper

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If you are going to go to all the trouble to get a different lens and stuff, get rid of the original housing and do a decent seperate setup. Then you don't have to worry with size,

Butch
 

ArkansasElkHunter

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50 lens for $30.  the will build you anything yo want, the have 30+ variations.

you can black in the lens with a permanent marker.  It will rub off if you touch it but it will stay under water and if you dont rub it.  It won't effect sensitivity when its on the smooth side.  it won't rub off the rough side but I havn't tried it for sensitivity yet.  
 


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