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New lead free bullet

adam32

Well-known member
www.hammerbullets.com

They just got approved for use in California. I haven't used them yet but I see no reason why they won't perform well. I'm getting them to design 85+ grain .22 cal bullets...they will put the "hammer" down on deer!
 

OPAH

Well-known member
Like the Boat tail, not sure about the ribs, not Hot about the hollow point.
 

adam32

Well-known member
Like the Boat tail, not sure about the ribs, not Hot about the hollow point.
The ribs are needed since it's a mono metal bullet, less friction thru the bore. I'd rather see a small aluminum tip as opposed to the hollow point but the hollow point should work just fine.
 

OPAH

Well-known member
Just never loaded or shot anything with ribs like that, I would think as long as the casing seats on one of the high spots and not over a valley you should be find. and that with the resistance of the hollow point if the back of the bullet is to much lighter at distance it could tend to tumble
 

adam32

Well-known member
Just never loaded or shot anything with ribs like that, I would think as long as the casing seats on one of the high spots and not over a valley you should be find. and that with the resistance of the hollow point if the back of the bullet is to much lighter at distance it could tend to tumble
Haven't you been shooting Barnes? They have ribs too...

And nearly all "match" bullets are hollow points, no tumbling happens unless the barrel doesn't have the proper twist.
 

OPAH

Well-known member
Not a Bullet Master by far Adam, Just started reloading because of this non lead crap. got tiered of having to take what was there and pay what they wanted.
Yes I did Shoot Barnes but they were factory loads never saw the bullet after the report. But hey give the Hammer a try if it works for you I may look at running some loads and see how they work for the Bruce and me
 

Mr. Luckypants

Well-known member
They better be cheaper and expand faster than Barnes else why would anyone want to use these? CNC made bullets are oober expensive. Just curious but why would you want to use 85grn copper in .223 for hunting? You want to go lighter with copper and not heavier.
 

adam32

Well-known member
They better be cheaper and expand faster than Barnes else why would anyone want to use these? CNC made bullets are oober expensive. Just curious but why would you want to use 85grn copper in .223 for hunting? You want to go lighter with copper and not heavier.
Barnes BC sucks and their low velocity impact expansion is crap too.

The Hammers are a lot like the GS Customs except made in Montana and not South Africa. The GS bullets are awesome so these should be too.

An 85+ grain .223 will have a very high BC. A 90gr Berger is pretty awesome out of a fast .223, but not very tough for close range work. I'm hoping an all copper will still have a high BC for half mile and beyond but still work well under 100 yards. Driven at 3500 fps plus it will should smack deer like lightning but have hardly any recoil.
 

Mr. Luckypants

Well-known member
Have you done any copper penetration test at long range or at various velocity using copper? I recommend to do that first before shooting at a deer 500yds away with a .223 all copper. Target/match using high BC with .223 is fine at long range but it's silly to hunt big game with copper at long range let alone using 223/copper combo.
 

adam32

Well-known member
Have you done any copper penetration test at long range or at various velocity using copper? I recommend to do that first before shooting at a deer 500yds away with a .223 all copper. Target/match using high BC with .223 is fine at long range but it's silly to hunt big game with copper at long range let alone using 223/copper combo.
That's why I said low velocity impact. The Hammers and GS will still expand down to 1800 fps.

I'm not going to get into the hunting with a .223 bullet argument. A .223 bullet out of a 22x284 or 22x243 is just fine out to half a mile, especially for deer. Deer aren't very hard to kill, just hit em in the right spot and they die. How many deer have been killed with a 30-30?
 

Mr. Luckypants

Well-known member
So you haven't done any testing yourself? I have done experiments with copper at various velocities and I can tell you penetration is very poor compared to lead bullets. Especially at lower velocity range (simulate velocity on impact at long range). I am a copper guy myself but I was pretty surprised at the result. I know for sure I will NEVER use copper for long range hunting. I believe your 22x284 and 22x243 will sustain expansion velocity beyond 600yds but please find a way to see what really happens at 1800fps. Don't just take their word for it.
 

adam32

Well-known member
Not my first rodeo.

All I wanted to do is bring another lead free option to everyone's attention.

I'll most likely stick with Bergers even after the statewide ban goes into effect. But, if all these mono metals do as well as it looks from testing by reputable people that I trust then they could be another good option.

And I'll be testing multiple bullets for them and another company, when I have time. Trying to gear up to make carbon fiber barrels right now.

Have you personally tested every bullet first at every range you've shot an animal at?
 

adam32

Well-known member
What are you comparing with? Most everything that I have read has been very positive about the performance of the Barnes SSTX.

Thanks.
They can be a bit hard to get to expand at times, especially on deer. They aren't designed for light skinned game. Even at high velocity sometimes they will just pencil thru with zero expansion unless you hit bone.
 

Planetcat

Well-known member
They can be a bit hard to get to expand at times, especially on deer. They aren't designed for light skinned game. Even at high velocity sometimes they will just pencil thru with zero expansion unless you hit bone.
This has been my experience with the tipped copper bullets in .300 win mag and .30-06. However, most of my hunting buddies disagree with me on this. They are devastating on shoulder bones though. I would bet the metalurgy behind the lead free bullets has evolved since the first generation, and maybe they are not as hard as they used to be. Regardless, I'll take a good bonded bullet over copper until I have to use lead free.
 

Plain ol' Steve

Well-known member
This has been my experience with the tipped copper bullets in .300 win mag and .30-06. However, most of my hunting buddies disagree with me on this. They are devastating on shoulder bones though. I would bet the metalurgy behind the lead free bullets has evolved since the first generation, and maybe they are not as hard as they used to be. Regardless, I'll take a good bonded bullet over copper until I have to use lead free.
They can be a bit hard to get to expand at times, especially on deer. They aren't designed for light skinned game. Even at high velocity sometimes they will just pencil thru with zero expansion unless you hit bone.
So .243 in Barnes not a good choice for antelope unless I make a shoulder hit? I was hoping to use it this year for WY antelope and if performance was good use if for mule deer in CA in 2017.
 
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Beastmode

Well-known member
So .243 in Barnes not a good choice for antelope unless I make a shoulder hit? I was hoping to use it this year for WY antelope and if performance was good use if for mule deer in CA in 2017.
You will be fine with a hit in the vitals. The copper bullets don't expand huge but they do expand. I have shot plenty of animals with the ttsx and they work.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

DAQ80

Well-known member
So .243 in Barnes not a good choice for antelope unless I make a shoulder hit? I was hoping to use it this year for WY antelope and if performance was good use if for mule deer in CA in 2017.
My son and wife shoot a .243 and have taken a blacktail Buck and Tule cow elk it.

The elk was taken with a Barnes TTSX from about 70 yds. The deer was taken with a Nosler E-tip from about 90 yds.

Both animals went down less than 20 yds from where they were hit, but shot placement was definitely critical. In both cases the exit wound was the same size as the entrance and there was basically no external bleeding. So if you do make a bad shot you probably won't have a blood trail, just something to be aware of.
 

adam32

Well-known member
So .243 in Barnes not a good choice for antelope unless I make a shoulder hit? I was hoping to use it this year for WY antelope and if performance was good use if for mule deer in CA in 2017.
What ranges do you think you'll get a shot at an antelope? Under 100 yards or over 300?
 


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