New possible California State record Archery Buck

'Ike'

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Originally posted by Lurediver@Feb 7 2006, 01:51 PM
'Ike' @ HM, where did you hear the story?
As said, I know of the guy who shot the buck and know his friend who hunted the same place and killed another great buck.....I got the story from his friend and saw the pictures after the hunt (Covelo Late Archery Hunt), which is good to go for me!
 

BOWUNTR

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Oh jeezze! The troubles of being a successful hunter. This happens too often. The guys that create these rumors ususlly diappear, hopefully this will be the case. Ed F
 

Mattb124

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Here are the facts as I know them. My hunting partner (whom I have know since 1993 and I think highly enough to have as a groom in my wedding) and his wife (whom I have know since 1999) were unloading their truck at their property when his wife spotted this buck chasing a doe. She then told my friend to grab his gear and go see if it was a good one. Long and short is he snuck in and killed it after a bit of cat and mouse. He called me that night and knew he had killed a special buck but he wasn't sure just how special (frankly he's more of a meat hunter than a horn hunter). He was also very proud of his wife (not very outdoorsy) who helped him drag the buck to the road, load it in their mule and skin it. He then came by the my house next night on his way home and I caped and rough scored the buck for him.

My understanding is that, following the CBH scoring, one of the scorers posted some pictures (with my hunting partner's permission) on internet sites such as this. Following this, the accuser suggested that perhaps the buck my hunting partner had killed and one that he was familiar with were one in the same, and that if that was the case my hunting partner must have poached the buck. Apparently, there was an exchange of photos to try and validate or disprove this. While I have not seen the pictures of the "other" buck, a trusted friend who is a CBH measurer has opined that while the bucks do have similar non-typical points, they are clearly different bucks. First, my hunting partner's buck had roughly a 20"x 20" typical frame (appearing tall). The other buck is very wide and noticable flatter (23"-24" wide and 15-16" tall?). Second, my hunting partner's buck's pedicles appear to be 1" or more closer together than the wider buck's. Despite what the accuser has infered, my understanding is that the pedicles do not shift inward and outward year over year, substantially impacting outside spread. Third and perhaps most importantly, my hunting partner's buck's ears appear to be fully intact in the pictures I have (and the ears can be clearly seen in 15+ photos), whereas the other buck appears to have a cut in one of its ears from fighting.

I can understand that a person might question whether the bucks are the same. Being diligent about such things is in all of our best interests as hunters. But when an accuser doesn't try to get (or flatly ignores) additional information that could clear up the situation, I for one have to question their motivations. I for one think it is sad commentray on this individual and on our sport that the accuser he would tarnish the reputation of a hunter and of a fine trophy to further their personal agenda.
 

CAjackrabbitWCP

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Second, my hunting partner's buck's pedicles appear to be 1" or more closer together than the wider buck's. Despite what the accuser has infered, my understanding is that the pedicles do not shift inward and outward year over year, substantially impacting outside spread.[/b]


Wow isn't that interesting?!!!! Maybe if the deer had a broken skull plate.



CAjackrabbitWCP
 

blazintowers

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Anyway you look at it that's an awesome RACK!!!!!! Congrats to the lucky hunter!!!
 

'Ike' @ HM

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Originally posted by CAjackrabbitWCP@Feb 7 2006, 09:39 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Second, my hunting partner's buck's pedicles appear to be 1" or more closer together than the wider buck's. Despite what the accuser has infered, my understanding is that the pedicles do not shift inward and outward year over year, substantially impacting outside spread.


Wow isn't that interesting?!!!! Maybe if the deer had a broken skull plate.



CAjackrabbitWCP [/b][/quote]
From the picture above, doesn't look like that happened!!!


In2, I shot you an E-mail!!!
 

CAjackrabbitWCP

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Yeah Ike' I think that I worded that incorrectly. It is very unlikely that the deer's skull plate was broken. From these pictures it does not appear that there is anything abnormal about the deer' skull plate.

Actually on this topic. My hunting partner and I were pig hunting at the end of january when we found a dead deer. At first it appeared that he'd been poached and dragged behind a tree to be picked up later. Upon further inspection we found out that his skull plate was indeed broken severly.
One probably situation that we strongly consider is that this buck got his A$$ kicked by another buck, broke his skull plate and gored him in the side. The buck made it as far as he could before dying.

CAjackrabbitWCP
 

'Ike'

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Originally posted by CAjackrabbitWCP@Feb 8 2006, 12:05 PM
Actually on this topic. My hunting partner and I were pig hunting at the end of january when we found a dead deer. At first it appeared that he'd been poached and dragged behind a tree to be picked up later. Upon further inspection we found out that his skull plate was indeed broken severly.
One probably situation that we strongly consider is that this buck got his A$$ kicked by another buck, broke his skull plate and gored him in the side. The buck made it as far as he could before dying.

CAjackrabbitWCP
That's a strong possibility! A mule deer I shot had his nose broke, that had healed over.....Great looking buck with a crooked nose!


That's a good looking buck in your avtar!
 

CAjackrabbitWCP

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Yeah the buck in my avatar is a whitetail from Illinois though. My uncle and I snuck up on him twice. That deer is easily over 300 pounds. I have a few more pictures of him too.

CAjackrabbitWCP
 

wakmasterr

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The California Bowmen Hunters Big Game Club was establiished in 1962 and we take great pride in the integrity of our records. Please rest assured that any inquiries about the bowhunting take of a California big game animal are investigated fully. It is (sadly) quite normal for detrimental stories to surface whenever a quality animal such as this buck is harvested.

In my own opinion, the two bucks in question are totally different bucks having similar characteristics. I have a veteran committee that is always available to be called on if I need them to resolve any issues, including this one should it warrant an investigation. As always, please feel free to contact me at wakmasterr1@yahoo.com regarding any bowhunting issues in California.

Craig Fritz
2nd VP Hunting
 

dugzr2

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I am a relative of one of the people who were originally concerned about the similarities of the two bucks. Just to set the record straight they had no intention of making their concerns known to the public. In fact they repeatedly requested that their inquires to the CBH (California Bow Hunter) about the buck be kept quiet as they admittedly had no real proof. They made these enquires to get additional information about the buck in order to decide if their concerns were valid. It was actually the CBH that let the information out to numerous people. It is that release of information that gets us to where we are today.
The California Bow Hunters have done absolutely nothing to help in this situation. My family, nor anyone else, familiar with buck has ever been contacted by anyone from the CBH. How can that possible be considered a through investigation? Weather the bucks are the same or not it is totally unacceptable for an organization like the CBH to act in the manner they did.
 

Matt Burke

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dugzr2, I give your relative credit for their interest in handling this discretely. Given the frequency with which we find hunters slamming one another on internet forums, I think this was handled as appropriately as possible. My hope is that this can be settled as quickly as possible so as not to tarnish the buck or the hunter.
 

jrobbd7

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BOTTOM LINE; GREAT BUCK !!! SUCCESSFUL HUNT!!!
 

BOWUNTR

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dugzr2

Just to set the record straight. I'm sorry but you are wrong about claiming that CBH is the source of the leak of information and that CBH has and is not doing anything.

Just a few select CBH Big Game Club Committee members were privey to the information that your relative was providing. I am one of them. I can vouch for the character of these individuals and can assure you that this leak did not come from any of us.

As soon your relative made inquiries about this buck, the CBH Big Game Club committee was notified. Your relative has been in contact with the wrong person CBH person if he is not getting any responses. Craig Fritz "wakmasterr" is the person he should be giving his information to. "A through investigation" doesn't happen overnight.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
as they admittedly had no real proof[/b]
Tough to do an investigation under these conditions.

What a shame. For the awsome buck, for the hunter, the measurer, the organizations... This happens way too often.


Oh yeah . Congrats to the hunter, on taking a deer of several lifetimes. Ed F
 

Matt Burke

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Dugzr2, I see that you edited your reply to reflect your interest in getting more information about this buck. Given my relationship to the hunter and obvious interest in having this matter settled, I encourage you to contact me directly and I will answer any questions I can. My first thought is to give you a general location as to where this buck was killed so that you can determine whether this topic even bears additional discussion.

As an aside, I talked with a good friend of mine (who has guided for blacktails for 15+ years) last night who has seen pictures of both bucks. Although he found some striking similarities, it was his opinion that these are definately different bucks. He thought the "other" buck may be as wide as 25" inside spread, whereas this buck was 19 2/8". Moreover, it appears the "other" buck only has as single throat patch whereas this buck has a second throat patch. He likewise commented on the previously mentioned difference in distance between the horn burrs.

My hope is that this will be settled to everyone's satisfaction in short order so we can all get on with life.
 

Mattb124

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I have been trying to give these folks additional information for a week now and have yet to be contacted regarding posts that I have left here and on blacktailcountry.com, or repsonses to my e-mails or PM's. I have offered additional pictures, information on the kill and even the general location as to where the bucks was killed to try and settle this. Apparently they are no longer interested in getting more information on this buck. Maybe they found some familar looking sheds?
 

BOWUNTR

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I removed my post. I better stay out of this. Ed F
 

'Ike'

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Originally posted by Mattb124@Feb 13 2006, 08:01 PM
Maybe they found some familar looking sheds?


I tried to have mine removed also, said it was to late.....
 


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