Night Hunting

[Surfswest]

Here is a question I have been trying to find an answer for for a while. Actually three questions. Here they are:

Here in California, can I night hunt on private land with owners permission?

If so, can I use a red light to help light up the pigs on a moonless night?

If yes to both questions above, do pigs see and respond to red light (run away), or do they even see it?

I have been invited to take my bow and remove a couple nuisance hogs nearby. Due to the proximity of buildings I have been asked to use my bow and not the 30-06, (though I can have a side arm with me for protection). Anyway, the only chance I can get in there and hunt is at night time and I definately would like the most light possible to see what I am shooting. Especially since I have never killed anything with my bow. Any advice you guys out there can offer me would be great.

Frosty

 

[Speckmisser]

Frosty,

The very best thing I can tell you, no matter what you read on this forum, is to ABSOLUTELY call the DFG and get their specific word on this.

For the most part, because pigs are considered "game animals", you cannot hunt them at night, period. However, I think there are exceptions in some counties, and under depredation permits.

However, this one isn't any place to mess around with a bunch of amateur interpretations of the law... go to the source, and live with what you get there.

 

[BGH831]

I can say without a doubt that you need to get a DFG Warden out to write you a permit to kill wild pigs between half-hour after sunset and half-hour before sunrise. Should not be an issue just ensure you can show and use the word "Damage" and your in like Flynn. Pigs are a non native species and Fish and Game is happy to see them dead by any means as long as it is legal and to be legal in the permit you have to have "Damage" and be unable to take them during legal hours and have tried before. Keep thoose things in mind and don't forget to post some pics. With archery night you might be able to take them all in one swoop.

 

[ozstriker22]

I'm backing BGH831 on this one.

Oh yeah... I'd love throw a 1st gen night scope on my bow... with infrared iluminator it'd be cake

So if you want some help... he he he... I'm always willing to give of my time for a worth cause...

 

[BGH831]

Any closer I would have offered a hand and a talking to the warden. And I can't wait for the day that a gen 3 scope on a surpressed M1 or AR...just put them to sleep

 

[ozstriker22]

I know what you mean!!! I was looking at buying one of those scopes from Cabela's... it was on sale a few hundred off and looked to be a really good deal. I was gonna put it on my Mini-14 (before I bought my M1a) but when I put it in my cart and tried to "check out" they said NO WAY IN CA.

oh well

Jesse

 

[BGH831]

humm interesting might have to call and check on that cause I know you can buy NV scopes here. One of the biggest manufactures is here. Or just call that family in Reno or take the old lady to Reno/Las Vegas for a "weekend". wink wink

 

[larrysogla]

It is not legal to have an infrared RIFLESCOPE(sees the infrared spectrum of light) and also it is not legal to have an image intensifier RIFLESCOPE(starlight riflescope) in California. You can buy the NON-RIFLESOPE model of the infrared scope and also the NON-RIFLESCOPE model of the image intensifier scope. Both should not have the mounting paraphernalia(i.e. mounting rails or mounting brackets) attached to the scope(NON-RIFLESCOPE). NO WEAPONIZED infrared scopes or image intensifier scopes allowed in California. 'Nuff said.
P.S. Having night hunted in Texas many times and successfully killing hogs during nightime, I can offer this advice to nighthunters(where it is legal!!!!), choose the full moon nights and use at least a 40mm objective optical riflescope(non-infrared or non-image intensifier) with a 4X magnification and you can see with the full moon, hogs walking or eating in the grass up to 50 yds. away and with your illluminated reticle optical riflescope, it is an easy deal to shoot and hit the hogs square on the shoulder. Fire away!!!!!

 

[spectr17]

Way back in the early 80s we got issued some of the first NVGs in the military. Naturally I checked them out every chance I got to scout for deer and hogs. FHL is where we first used NVGs and NODs. Back then they was no reg against using them at all. The only problem was the first generation NVGs were very limited in depth perception. We'd stumble around trying to spot deer, falling over tree logs and into ditches. Bout killed ourselved several times. The newer generation ones are much better on the depth perception issue.

I guess others found out about the NVGs and started using them to poach deer and it was a few years later the reg came out in CA regarding NVGs and NODs and using them to hunt with.

They did help us find deer and pigs to hunt the next day but boy did our shins pay for it.

 

[bighog]

Interesting thread. Heres my

I asked a game warden once 2 years ago about using a bow on a depredation permit when hogs were invading a neighborhood. He said no bows because they require a perfect shot to kill the hog on the spot and the last thing they want is wounded hogs running around with arrows sticking out of them. Bad for the hogs and dangerous for the general public and ammunition for the anti's. They want a quick humane kill.

I also had a friend from work who was getting hog damage. She called the game warden and he issued her a depredation permit to use a center fire rifle. When I got to her home I could'nt believe the proximity of other homes around hers. I thought the warden must be nuts allowing a rifle bullet capable of travelling miles to be shot around these houses. The paperwork was there though, all signed and official. It also said bait could be used. And no, I didnt take a hog the one night I sat in her driveway. No hogs showed and It just wasn't hunting, so I never went back.

 

[Surfswest]

You know, after reading the responses and the great advice you guys gave me, I definitely will go talk to the Fish and Game guys and get their blessing on this. Better safe than sorry and I'd hate to lose my liscense and go to jail over a couple of pigs.

But I am still curious. Do pigs respond to the red light or not? I am not asking for reason of mouning any type of riflescope or anything like that, its more for a flashlight type of light to spot and locate them. I am kinda at the beck and call of this guy who will call me when the pigs are back again so I can head over there and take care of them. That makes it kinda hard to plan on a full moon night if I were to go.

I'll check with F&G today and post back here later with what they tell me.

Frosty

 

[Surfswest]

well, after speaking to three DFG Agents in three different offices I got some answers. They told me that basically I need to follow the same guidelines on private property as if it were public property. That night hunting was out of the question. I asked about a light and they said no also. Thats when I brought up that in the 2006 regs that I can legally use a light no more than a 9v that self contains its own power source (batteries), hand-held or worn on the head, and what they thought of that. After quickly backpedalling they did say that was acceptable, but not anything more powerful than that.

They said that the only time that these rules can be ignored is when a depredation permit is issued. Upon asking them how to go about getting one, (I have read the regs and know, I just wanted to hear what they had to say), they didn't know squat about them!!!! The final guy I spoke with was trying to tell me that even if I got one that when I killed the pigs that they would have to be turned over to the DFG and that I could not keep them. Bull Crap!!!! According to the regs that MIGHT apply to bears, but not pigs. Heck, I could even give the pigs to someone else if I wanted to.

I have emailed copies of these regs to the DFG Agent this morning at his request so he could see what I was reading. I guess he lost his copy of them...............

Hopefully I can talk to someone soon in the DFG that know what they are talking about and can help me out. I'll keep you guys updated.

Frosty

 

[hatchet1]

imagine that, sorry bro.kuddos to you for doing your homework,always best to be your own
advocate when dealing with the revolving door.let us know if you find anything out,good luck.

 

[Speckmisser]

That's my understanding also... animals killed on depredation permits are supposed to be turned over to DFG or destroyed. They don't want people using depredation as an excuse to stock their freezers. It's not supposed to be a sport hunt.

I know some folks are collecting the meat from depredation permits, but not sure if that's legal or not. Again... regardless of what you think about their level of knowledge, you are well-advised to follow the DFG's recommendation.

 

[Surfswest]

Sorry guys, I know this is a lot to read so I'll cut out unnecissary parts and highlight what is the "meat" of the text. For the full info, here is the link: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/fgc/4180-4190.html

California Codes
California Fish and Game Code
FISH AND GAME CODE SECTION 4180-4190

4181. (a) Except as provided in Section 4181.1, any owner or tenant
of land or property that is being damaged or destroyed or is in
danger of being damaged or destroyed by elk, bear, beaver, wild pig,
wild turkeys, or gray squirrels, may apply to the department for a
permit to kill the animals. Subject to the limitations in
subdivisions (b) and (d), the department, upon satisfactory evidence
of the damage or destruction, actual or immediately threatened, shall
issue a revocable permit for the taking and disposition of the
animals under regulations adopted by the commission. The permit
shall include a statement of the penalties that may be imposed for a
violation of the permit conditions. Animals so taken shall not be
sold or shipped from the premises on which they are taken except
under instructions from the department.

(Read on, it gets better for us)

No iron-jawed or steel-jawed
or any type of metal-jawed trap shall be used to take any bear
pursuant to this section. No poison of any type may be used to take
any gray squirrel or wild turkey pursuant to this section. The
department shall designate the type of trap to be used to ensure the
most humane method is used to trap gray squirrels. The department
may require trapped squirrels to be released in parks or other
nonagricultural areas. It is unlawful for any person to violate the
terms of any permit issued under this section.

(b) The permit issued for taking bears pursuant to subdivision (a)
shall contain the following facts:
(1) Why the issuance of the permit was necessary.
(2) What efforts were made to solve the problem without killing
the bears.
(3) What corrective actions should be implemented to prevent
reoccurrence.

© With respect to wild pigs, the department shall provide an
applicant for a depredation permit to take wild pigs or a person who
reports taking wild pigs pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section
4181.1 with written information that sets forth available options for
wild pig control, including, but not limited to, depredation
permits, allowing periodic access to licensed hunters, and holding
special hunts authorized pursuant to Section 4188. The department
may maintain and make available to these persons lists of licensed
hunters interested in wild pig hunting and lists of nonprofit
organizations that are available to take possession of depredating
wild pig carcasses.

4181.1.
(b) Notwithstanding Section 4652, any wild pig that is encountered
while in the act of inflicting injury to, molesting, pursuing,
worrying, or killing livestock or damaging or destroying, or
threatening to immediately damage or destroy, land or other property,
including, but not limited to, rare, threatened, or endangered
native plants, wildlife, or aquatic species, may be taken immediately
by the owner of the livestock, land, or property or the owner's
agent or employee, or by an agent or employee of any federal, state,
county, or city entity when acting in his or her official capacity.
The person taking the wild pig shall report the taking no later than
the next working day to the department and shall make the carcass
available to the department. Unless otherwise directed by the
department and notwithstanding Section 4657, the person taking a wild
pig pursuant to this subdivision, or to whom the carcass of a wild
pig taken pursuant to this subdivision is transferred pursuant to
subdivision ©, may possess the carcass of the wild pig. The person
in possession of the carcass shall make use of the carcass, which
may include an arrangement for the transfer of the carcass to another
person or entity, such as a nonprofit organization, without
compensation. The person who arranges this transfer shall be deemed
to be in compliance with Section 4304. A violation of this
subdivision is punishable pursuant to Section 12000. It is the
intent of the Legislature that nothing in this subdivision shall be
interpreted to authorize a person to take wild pigs pursuant to this
subdivision in violation of a state statute or regulation or a local
zoning or other ordinance that is adopted pursuant to other
provisions of law and that restricts the discharge of firearms.
© The department shall make a record of each report made
pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) and may have an employee of the
department investigate the taking or cause the taking to be
investigated. The person taking a wild pig shall provide information
as deemed necessary by the department. Upon completion of the
investigation, the investigator may, upon a finding that the
requirements of this section have been met with respect to the
particular bear or wild pig taken under subdivision (a) or (b), issue
a written statement to the person confirming that the requirements
of this section have been met. The person who took the wild pig may
transfer the carcass to another person without compensation.

(d) Notwithstanding Section 4763, any part of any bear lawfully
possessed pursuant to this section is subject to Section 4758.
(e) Nothing in this section prohibits federal, state, or county
trappers from killing or trapping bears when the bears are killing or
molesting livestock, but no iron-jawed or steel-jawed or any type of
metal-jawed trap shall be used to take the bear, and no person,
including employees of the state, federal, or county government,
shall take bear with iron-jawed or steel-jawed or any type of
metal-jawed traps.



4181.2. For the purposes of this article relating to damage caused
by wild pigs, "damage" means loss or harm resulting from injury to
person or property. The department shall develop statewide
guidelines to aid in determining the damage caused by wild pigs. The
guidelines shall consider various uses of the land impacted by pigs.


4188. (a) If a landowner or tenant applies for a permit under
Section 4181 for wild pigs or wild turkeys, or under Section 4181.5
for deer, the department shall notify the landowner or tenant about
available options for allowing access by licensed hunters, including,
but not limited to, access authorized pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 1570) of Chapter 5 of Division 2 to control
wild pigs, wild turkeys, and deer.
(b) The commission, in lieu of a permit as described in
subdivision (a), and with the consent of, or upon the request of, the
landowner or tenant, under appropriate regulations, may authorize
the issuance of permits to persons holding valid hunting licenses to
take wild pigs, wild turkeys, or deer in sufficient numbers to stop
the damage or threatened damage. Before issuing permits to licensed
hunters, the department shall investigate and determine the number of
permits necessary, the territory involved, the dates of the proposed
hunt, the manner of issuing the permits, and the fee for the permit.


Thanks for sticking in there, it was quite long. So what do you guys think about this?

Frosty

 

[Speckmisser]

A couple of things.

First of all, 4181.1 is not germane to depredation permits. It is specific to property owners who find the pigs in the act. The same way a rancher can shoot a dog for chasing his cattle.

Interesting, though that 4181.1 specifies that the person who kills the animal should make use of it, but there is no such specification in the main part of 4181. According 4181 you'll be instructed what to do with the carcasses by the Department. Which, of course, means that the DFG you spoke to were technically correct. It's up to them whether you keep the meat or send the carcass to the tallow factory.

The option of allowing legal hunters on the property came about as part of a new program that I hope more landowners take advantage of (although I hold no high hopes). However, that option means that the licensed hunters still have to hunt according to the DFG laws for the species in question... so still, no night hunting.

Again though... the whole point is that, if you want to do this, work with the DFG and do it their way. If you're just looking for a loophole to do a little hunting, then it's probably not going to pan out for you. But hey... no harm in asking.

 

[PIGIG]

I read it and understand it! But as usual it is open to interpretation of the officer you are talking to, every year I have this discussion wit DFG on Abalone and the immediate consumption rule and can never get a straight answer

good luck

 

[easymoney]

Be VERY careful and follow the rule of the law to the letter.
I have had experience "helping" with a depridation tag and it was not a pleseant time. Face down in the dirt, handcuffs and feet in the back... All with a leagl permit, but because the anti neighbors called the sheriff, we went through the grinder even though we were legal...
And in CA you can not hunt game animals after sunset with or without a light. Predators are legal to hunt with lights in certain areas ...

 

[BGH831]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (easymoney @ Aug 24 2006, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Be VERY careful and follow the rule of the law to the letter.
I have had experience "helping" with a depridation tag and it was not a pleseant time. Face down in the dirt, handcuffs and feet in the back... All with a leagl permit, but because the anti neighbors called the sheriff, we went through the grinder even though we were legal...
And in CA you can not hunt game animals after sunset with or without a light. Predators are legal to hunt with lights in certain areas ...[/b]

I am looking at a Dep permit dated the 13th of Augest and it say Quote " Authorized method of take Centerfire Rifle Night OK Light OK If trap is used, Trap No. LIVE CAGE TRAPThe carcass shall be tagged, field dressed and handled as follows: Utilize carcass as you see fit may not sell if carcass leaves property tag w/ permit # , name & date of kill mail monthly report to : Dept of fish and game wildlife programs branch 1416 ninth st sacramento ca 95814 "

 

[larrysogla]

As mentioned by Easymoney, the local cops also have a say in the matter. If within the city limits, ABSOLUTELY NO DISCHARGE OF FIREARMS. Same applies in an INCORPORATED AREA OF THE COUNTY, no discharge of firearms. Many cities also prohibit any kind of hunting at all, even with archery. Same with incorporated areas of the county, NO HUNTING. The DFG depredation permit does not overrule City and County firearm regs and City and County hunting prohibitions. The City and County regs have supremacy over DFG hunting and depredation rules. It will be a very nasty and very expensive lesson to disregard local laws and regs. Make sure you are legal with the local regs as well. Hunting in densely populated California is a complex of interlocking, overlapping regs from so many legal agencies. It is always BUYER BEWARE.
Also, a centerfire rifle will exit the bullet on a medium sized hog at CLOSE RANGE. Ricochets are very dangerous. 'Nuff said.