Observe the Hunt without License?

Tradewind4

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Hi guys, my first post in this great forum and resource for all hunters.
I plan to bring a buddy along to do some small game hunting. He doesn't have a license and will just observe and not shoot anything. Is that legal? Just want to make sure.
 

pbrdog

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As long as he's not carrying a firearm....
 

jmartinez74

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I second pbrdog,
As long as he is not carrying a firearm, he can accompany you
on your hunt. I assure you that after he goes out with you, he'll
be getting his license soon after! Good luck on your hunt.
 

vrstull

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I've always wondered what the statutes, regs, or case law says about what constitutes "hunting." Never had the energy to research it. Maybe this thread will be it.
 

Pasco

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It better be legal, I've been bringing my unlicensed kids with me for years.

When he retrieves just make sure it's to hand, you don't want those birds dropped at your feet!
 

VHRAM

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you might want to ask a warden , we talked to a game warden one year about some anti hunters they proscecuted for hunting without a liscene when they were disrupting game to foul hunts up , he said if i remember correctly if they were herding or chasing game it was considered hunting, so if your buddy helps you in anyway i think you could have a problem. I know the ca dfg has a question area to send questions to.
 

Tree Doc

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"Pursuit" constitutes "Hunting"

If you "bird dog" or bust brush for a gunner, you're hunting as well.
 

JDC

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Originally posted by Tree Doc@Jul 27 2004, 09:52 PM
"Pursuit" constitutes "Hunting"

If you "bird dog" or bust brush for a gunner, you're hunting as well.
So then, under those pretenses, I need a license for my dog!

BTW-

Welcome Tradewind4!!
 

vrstull

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What Tree Doc mentioned is what interested me. The question would be if I, as an "observer." have no intent to personally take a bird but do something that assists another to do so, am I by definition hunting?

Fish & Game Code, section 86 states: "Take" means hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill.

Seems to me that if what you are doing stands alone and fits within the definition of section 86 you're hunting; or at least engaged in activity which fits the definition of "take."

The factual issue that would be presented, however, is whether you are actually doing any of the things that fits the definition. That is a question of fact and depends on the circumstances. So I think you could be following a bird hunter with your own gun and still not be hunting could you not? But you better use some common sense for pete's sake. Warden, or anyone else for that matter, sees you side by side with a hunter and you're carrying a shotgun, what's the logical conclusion? Facts can be "read," even if incorrectly, but not your mind.
 

Tree Doc

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Originally posted by JDC+Jul 28 2004, 05:55 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JDC @ Jul 28 2004, 05:55 AM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Tree Doc
@Jul 27 2004, 09:52 PM
"Pursuit" constitutes "Hunting"

If you "bird dog" or bust brush for a gunner, you're hunting as well.
So then, under those pretenses, I need a license for my dog!

BTW-

Welcome Tradewind4!!
[/b]
I assume you're kidding but in case you are not the use of a dog a specifically spelled out in F&G Code for the take of birds and pursuit of some mammals. No license needed.
 

grkhunter

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What's up guys.

I just got a reply from a DFG Lieutenant regarding a similar question. She informed me that if you are in an area where it is legal to discharge a firearm than you can carry one BUT if a warden sees that the person w/o a hunting license is assisting the hunt in any way, "assisting" being in the discretion of the warden's opinion, then the non-hunter can be cited for hunting w/o a license.

I don't think that there would be any problem with having anyone come with you on your trip just as long as they're not hunting w/o a license. I've brought many friends with me (previous non-hunters) on my excursions without any problem. The great thing is that most of them become hunters after thier first outing. Its a great feeling to introduce somone new to a sport that we all enjoy.

Hope this helps.
Mitso da Greek
 

mouthcallinmatt1

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Your question may be regarding upland game hunting but I can give you my experience waterfowl hunting. I've taken my kids as non-hunters for years and also a few friends and family as non-hunters hunting upland game and waterfowl. When we hunt Wister and get our permits in the morning we must write on a card all who will be at our site. If I am taking someone who is not hunting then we must state on the card that they are a "non-hunter". I figure if I can take people out as non-hunters in a place where they are checked by DFG employees then it shouldn't be a problem anywhere else.

The "assisting" would definitely be discretionary since I could have the non-hunters help in placing decoys, build a blind & even blow a call if they want which is in a way "assisting" with the hunt. IMO opinion it would be quite a stretch to get ticketed for taking out a non-hunter.
 

Tree Doc

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MCM1, I would definitely agree that a lot of this would be very discressionary on the part of the observing warden.
 

BuckFinder

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MouthMatt, You mention taking your kids out hunting and having them help you put out the decoys, etc..that is by definition a violation of the law. Do I think that you and I should be ticketed for educating our children about the sport we love...absolutely not. However, if you are with a teenager and doing the exact same thing, the warden approaches you differently.. This is coming from experience, as last year at Mendota Wildlife refuge I took a non-licensed hunter out in the field for his first ever duck hunt. Thank goodness he wasn't carrying anything except his own backpack, but a warden gave us the works. Had he been carrying the decoys, stands, dog leash, we would have been toast. Not a nice man, but following the law. So, is you son or daughter to young??? I don't know. The law is clear, however, the age is not.. You should just hope that no warden would bring you down while your young child is "helping" you throw out decoys. California, take it or leave it?
 

JDC

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Tree Doc-

Yes, it was aimed at nothing but amuzement.
 

mouthcallinmatt1

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Originally posted by BuckFinder@Jul 28 2004, 06:31 PM
MouthMatt, You mention taking your kids out hunting and having them help you put out the decoys, etc..that is by definition a violation of the law....You should just hope that no warden would bring you down while your young child is "helping" you throw out decoys. California, take it or leave it?
I'll take my chances. If for some reason I end up getting checked by a Warden that has a chip on his shoulder like the guy you ran in to and he has a problem with my 8 year old daughter blowing a duck call or putting out some goose decoys (my 10 year old son has his license) then go ahead and give me a ticket. I'll see him in court.

Young children like mine, teenagers, or adults who are interested in learning to hunt should be able to go without worrying about getting a ticket because they were carrying decoys or sitting next to a shooter with empty shell casings around them. I think all of these people should go out and experience it first before they get a license and purchase a gun. I guess they could always take the hunter's safety course and get a license just to observe but how many people would be willing to fork over $50.00+ to watch. That's quite a deterent for bringing new people to hunting.
 
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