Question about crosshair leveling for long range shooting

[oldflint]

Went out with some friends to sight in our rifles for our upcoming WY antelope hunt the other day. I started mine at 100yds and shot a few rounds. Got a tight 1in group 2 inches high and 1 right. Since it was sighted in at 200yds last season, 2 inches high should be about perfect for 100yds, but the one inch right was not good. However something told me not to touch the scope adjustments just yet. After waiting for the rifle to cool down, I preceded to shoot a centered 8in group at 300yds.

Wind was maybe 2-3 mph, from 12 o'clock.
Shooting Savage Model 10 with medium-heavy barrel - 1.5lbs trigger
.243 Win - 85gr Barnes TSX - 43gr IMR4831 - 3170fps

I think I ran into something like this last season where I seemed to be shooting about an inch right at 100yds when I sighted in dead center at 200yds. I was just never sure about it because I seemed to always get a good crosswind kicking up whenever I tried to confirm it. 1 inch right at 100yds but dead centered at 200 still puts meat on the table, so it didn't bother me much. But for whatever reason, this year, it bothers me. :far-side-guy-yellin

I wondered if maybe the reason could be that my scope crosshairs are not level, so I checked them as best I could with a level. I placed the level on the scope ring covers and leveled the scope, and then without moving the rifle, placed the level on the flat left side of the receiver. It appeared to be slightly off of level with the scope. Not being sure the left side of the receiver was machined level with the rifle, I tried to confirm this by lining up the level with the seam running down the rubber butt-plate. As best I could tell, it said the same thing: slightly off of level.

Questions:
Could crosshairs that are not quite level be causing this shift of impact between 100 and 300yds?

How do you long range/match shooters level your crosshairs accurately?

Any ideas on what might be the problem? I would like several people's opinions if possible. I will try to confirm this change in impact Thursday if the wind cooperates. Thanks in advance!

<i>OldFlint<i\></i\></i>

 

[oldflint]

Well, the wind didn't cooperate at all. It was 8-30 mph gusts from 12 o'clock and later from 5 o'clock with strong gusty winds from 3 o'clock. So I decided to work on shooting form and shot my cheap 85gr speers. This required me to sight in for this round, so I dropped trying to figure out the path of the barnes bullets. Still wondering about my crosshairs though.

However, I still would like to know:
Could crosshairs that are not quite level cause a significant right/left shift of impact between 100 and 300yds?

How do you long range/match shooters level your crosshairs accurately?

OldFlint

 

[BelchFire]

I'm not a long range shooter; I'm a hunter, so take this with a grain of salt. Yes, unlevel crosshairs can cause a windage problem. But it's very small; I seriously doubt it's your windage issue.

I admire your efforts to level the crosshairs with the rifle's flats, but realize this: If the rifle were out even 20º or 30º it's OK if you shoot it the same way you sight it. Even if they're not level; just so long as they're consistent.

 

[csutton7]

level rifle and then level scope for installation...

now to your problem--you shoot a group and you get one shot that's to the right??? is that right???

if that's right you just flinched or held the rifle differently, didn't concentrate like the other shots, your breathing was off on the one shot or something along that line--basically shooter error on the one "flyer to the right"---

basically your gun shoots an 8" group at 300yds, shoots good at 200 yds, but you had one flyer at 100yds--sends me back to shooter error

don't get me wrong on the shooter error--I'm not saying you're a bad shooter, but that you just did something a hair different with that one shot........

or maybe the wind was gusting differently for that one shot--


now if it's something else that's happened you need to explain it better---but to me it sounds like just a flyer---happens all the time---

oh yea I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night......really I'm not a professional shooter, just been shooting a long time---chris

 

[sidepass]

Flyer to the right, was it your first shot with a clean barrel? Your fouling shot and then the rest group as they should. Off level means your canted and yes your shoots will go off to the side. To level your scope to the rifle buy a level ,level, level.A cheap tool for just that purpose. Also another tool exsist which set on the side rails of your action, bolt removed and have a perpendicular part with a line groved in it which you line up with the crosshairs. Good luck!

sidepass

 

[oldflint]

Actually, my shots were all grouping about 1 inch right of center at 100 yards, but then all dead centered at 300. Strange. But since the wind was so bad that day, I didn't try to figure it out and re-sighted in for a different round. What's frustrating is that my beat around rifle that cost me $150 is shooting better than my nice heavy barreled Savage. Made a range of loads to shoot through the Savage, we'll have to see if it like a different powder charge.

Thanks for the advice guys!