Radio Shack PIR Notes

Tinhorn

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Relay Diode
Max,  msfelton's diode selection is a good one

LED
I think what I'd do is use a DPDT switch (a 3 terminal switch).  The Black speaker wire goes to the Center Terminal of the switch.

The relay/diode connection that DID go to the Black Speaker wire now gets connected to one of the Outer Terminals of the switch

A LED would get connected to the other, outer terminal of the switch.  Then connect a 470 ohm resistor to the lose LED end and the other end of the resistor would get connected to the REd Speaker Wire (or Batt (+)  (note, if the LED don't light, swop it's ends)  The LED will stay lit for the delay time of the PIR.

When the Switch is in one position, the Test LED lights when motion is sensed, in the other position, the camera is ARMED

Bat's Selectable Delay Times
Bat, your idea will work real good.  Don't let the delay get above 3 min's tho because the OWL PF might "Shutdown" if it's shutter is held down longer than that !

Davered1
I think you got the MS20 PIR Auto Mode corn-fused with the RS PIR.  Your 3 min statement isn't true on the RS PIR?

Referring to the RS PIR part of your question:

If you hook a relay directly to Pin 2, it will do the same thing I described at the top of this post, time out in 30 seconds and no singing relay, but the problem is you maybe "OverLoading" the IC.  It wasn't really designed to run a relay and may not have enough power to do it (may overload and burn out the IC, especially in the hot summer !)  I don't believe anybody has burned out the IC yet but it's so easy to lift a resistor lead and have a Relay Driver that has plenty of current to run a relay, why not do it for insurance purposes.......

Tinhorn
 

INshedpicker

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Now Bat has gotten me thinkin' about his multiselector timing switch using different resistances.  I'm not sure exactly what the meaning of a "multiselector switch" would encompass, but would a dip switch (with say 4 of those little, itty, bitty, switches on it) be capable of the same function?

Tinhorn, you said the OWL "might" shutdown if triggered longer than 3 minutes.  Have you done tests that show this?
 

Tinhorn

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msfelton,

Any switch that has more than one position can work,  rotary or slide or even a 2 position toggle switch if 2 times is all u need (those switches u mentioned will work too)

I have not tested the Owl PF shutdown personally but others have, so believe it is a problem.  I am wondering if holding down the button longer is also harder on the cam batteries too but never checked that out either

Tinhorn
 

Tinhorn

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Thanx Jon Bain

for the report on your experiences....

Oops!  You made me realize that I used .8 ma's for the battery life expectancy calculations instead of .08ma's  (the calcs indicate 10 months of use at .08 ma's)

Tinhorn
 

Pgumby68

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Tinhorn,
I like Bat's idea for a multi-position switch. I have a few questions for you, since you seem to be the "local expert" on this PIR. If I remove R11 and replace it with a bank of resistors conected to a multi-position switch, does it matter if the switch comes before the resistors? Does "polarity" of the resistors matter? In this set up, does this cause the Camera relay to stay closed for the chosen periods of time? I hate to come at you with so many questions at once, but if my simple mind is comprehending correctly, Bat has found the answer to many of our timing questions.
 

Tinhorn

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Pgumby68

It don't matter if the switch is before or after the resistors

and resistors have no polarity,  use low wattage, like 1/8 watt for ease of use but it don't matter if they are 25 watts really, as long as the value is correct (in this case that is)

As you suspected, the relay is pulled in the whole time which makes it hurt battery life expectancy at extended times.

Also note the Owl PF mite shutdown if the shutter is activated over 3 min's

Tinhorn
 

bat

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Update to a Multiposition switch for different resistors.  I was at Radio Shack this last week getting my next camera parts and talking with a clerk.  He told me that I could get a varible resistor that would do the same as the two, three or four resistor application that I was asking about.  He didn't know which one to use but if somebody could look for a part number that would work I would appreciate it.  Thanks!
 

Tinhorn

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The Selecto-matic feature you wanted is a little more easier to use to determine the time delays but a variable resistor would be cheaper and easier to build.

To select the value (Ohms) just determine the longest delay you'd want to have and figure out the resistors value then find a variable that matches this value pretty close.

I don't know if RS goes this high or not but a 10M variable resistor would probably work pretty good (it'd get to Maybe 3 min's)  If it has 3 terminals, use the center and one of the Outer Terminals.

You will have to make a dial label with tick marks and times written  on it.

As an extra, you could figure out what minimum delay time you wanted and determine a 'Fixed" resistor's value.  Put this resistor in "series" with the variable and that way, when the variable is at Zero Ohms, the Fixed resistor would create that minimum time delay you wanted.

Tinhorn
 

Munce27520

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How about adjusting the RS/PIR receiver inside the cam housing??  I set up my new cam outside and the PIR seems to be aimed to high. When my dogs walked by it didn't get them, but it got me. So I carefully bent the PIR receiver down alittle bit. Would this be considered normal adjustments? Thanks.

(Edited by Munce27520 at 5:19 pm on Feb. 25, 2002)
 

Tinhorn

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Yes you can point the RS PIR downwards to pickup your dogs (and other, low to the ground animals)

Some Fresnel Lens Info

Look at the Pix located on Jesse's Main HomeBrew Page, of the MS20's Coverage Pattern.  You'll notice 3 patterns, one looking sharply down, a 2nd looking down with a range of 20 feet, & a 3rd looking out past 45 feet (I think it was)  Each of these 3 patterns is due to the 3 rows on the "Fresnel Lens" of the PIR.  This means the MS20 can "Blanket" the area and even pick up squirrels or other small animals on the ground, just a few feet in front of it.

Unlike the MS20 PIR, the RS PIR's fresenel lens  only has one row.  The RS PIR's intent was to pick up upright humans, which means it'll capture Deer too but there is a dead space under this "Main" beam that possibly can miss your dogs and other smaller animals.

On the MS20, I sometimes use black tape and block the 45' + range so keep from getting night time pix's that are too far for the flash.  I could block the short range (bottom row) and prevent wasting film on squirrels or rabbits to a certain extent (but never have, I want foxes, etc. to trigger the unit)

Tinhorn
 

bat

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Tinhorn, thanks for the infomation on the varible resistor, I forgot to go back to that post and just now revisited it.  I got a question on the Fresnel lense above, if you so desired I guess you could interchange the RS and the MS20 lenses to get the results you wanted without actually changing the entire PIRs is that correct?  I know there is a post somewhere that you could just order Fresnel lenses but I forget where that link is at and don't remember if they would work with both.  Anyway you answered my question of why I didn't get my neighbors dog when he went by my RS PIR.
 

Tinhorn

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Hi Bat,

I think you could use any fresnel lens but see a problem (maybe) with the physical sizes.  The RS Len Slot or hole is pretty narrow compared to the MS20 so using an MS20 fresnel or something similiar might "Cut-Off" part of the rows of lens.....
 

bat

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With help from Tinhorn I acheived the following results using different resistors to get different delays.  Lifting R11 to change the delay:  Remove R11 on the RS pir and connect as many delays as you want to get different delays, use the formula of 60K per second of delay to acheive whatever value/values you want or you can use a Potentiometer to change the value of delay.  For the Potentiometer you can use up to a 10M Pot. and add a 470K resistor in series with it (with the 10M added in series with the 10M Pot. you will be reaching close to 3 min. which is the maximum you want to use to keep from shutting down the PF camera).  If you want to go with dip switches (slide switches), I used these values of resistors and acheived the following delays:  470K=8sec., 1500K=27sec., 4700K=1 min.15 sec., 10,000K or 10M=appromiate 2.9mins.  I used 4 different switches and connected all 4 different value to each switch, you have to leave one on all the time if you do it this way.  Another way of doing it is to wire the higher four to three switches and use the 470K in series with the others (wire it straight without a switch, this will ensure you always have a value connected so you don't have to remember to keep one switch turned on.  Thanks Tinhorn for the help, it works good! bat
 

g-hog

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Hey Bat/ or any one else that can help

Is there a pic or drawing of exactly how to hook up the 10meg pot and 470k resister. I just got through building my first cam and have taken 2 rolls of film. It works really well and I owe all you guys a word of thanks for all the great info here. On the second roll of film me and my daughter went out last Sunday around 3:30pm and put it by one of my corn feeder. The first pic was taken about 6:50pm and the ran out of film around 2:30am. One set had 4 pics taken in the same minute so I really like the idea of adding a little delay with a pot.

On another note can you run 600 speed film in the Owl PF it says for 200 and 400 just wondering since since I am photography challanged :)

G-hog
 

bat

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Hey g-hog, I haven't really tried the pot. method but someone in here did. All you need to do is get a pot that wouldn't go over the 10m size(I believe I right on that...been a while) and remove the R11 resistor and run a wire from top position of the R11 to the center Pot. post, then wire a wire from one of the outer post of the pot. back to the bottom position of R11. You can also do the same with different Resistor value up to the 10m size. To see what time values you will have with different resistors, just divide the resistor value by 60K and this will give you the delay in seconds. exp..... 1800k/60K=30 seconds. 470k/60k=7.7 seconds, you would not want to use this one over a feeder. One thing you might want to consider is going ahead and getting a timer from some of the guys in here if you are going to place your cam over a feeder, then you can have whatever delays you tell them need. Just replacing the R11 will hold the shutter down longer causing the camera batteries to use more energy...I would go with a timer instead.
On the 600 speed film, I have not seen any of this...didn't really know they made it, course I am from the deep country woods
hope this helps you decide.... bat
 

Tinhorn

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Thanx to MCinIL, for this 3D sketch for wiring the PIR to a Cam

I added his sketch to the NO Singing Relay pinned post. It was a little Lite so I redid a few text areas, etc.

BTW, a SPDT (3 terminal) switch could be used instead of teh DPDT switch. You'd just have to connect the 3 wires drawn in on the top of the switch to the 3 terminal switch in the same way. The 2 wires going to the bottom portion of the DPDT switch would just be connected together and go directly from the relay terminal over to the camera Plug. (the arrow is pointing to these 2 wires) Don't matter, either switch will work tho

http://www.nightowl.net/~tinhorn/3D30sec.jpg

Tinhorn
 

MIBowhunter

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I just got done using a 3 terminal SPDT switch, I hooked one end for the LED Test light and the other for the camera, works great, now do not have the LED going on when it's setup for taking pictures only for testing, how much that will save on Batt. life I do not knw but thanks for all the great info on this sight. This was my third camera but first with this MOD and I think I will retrofit my first 2 camera set-ups!!
 

DropTheHammer

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Anyone here compared the RS49-425 and RS49-426 as far as component reference designators are concerned? I'd like to shorten the pulse width on a 426. Do the ICs have the same markings between the 425 and 426? Has anyone been able to determine who makes the ICs found on these boards?
 

Bow-N-String

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Tinhorn,
Would changing the R11 resistor to 4700k on the rs#49-426 pir work as far as giving me a delay of around 1 1/2 minutes, like it does on the 425? Or should I put in a timer instead. I just finished making my 1 st. cam and it looks great. I am using the 49-426 with the owl pf date. I followed the drawing by gus for the directions. If I need a timer can I get one from you? How much and how do you put it into my setup? I really can't use it like it is next to feeder, it would just take a pic of the same deer until the film was gone...

Bow-N-String
 

Tinhorn

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Hi Bow-N-String,

Welcome to the Forum!

I'm not 100% sure the designation on the RS model 426 is the same as the 425 but have a hunch it is

Your 4700K value (4.7Megohms) might be a little low (1800K X 3 = 5200K or 5.2 M (5.1M commercial value) to get the 1.5 minutes you wanted but I personally doubt if you'd see mucy difference in a 30 sec delay or a 1.5 minute delay as far as pix's of deer is concered.

Note that there will be an upper limit on the value of R11 and I don't know what it is, 4.7 or 5.1 Meg is pretty high tho.

Read thru the pinned topics and do some reseach pertaining to Refresh Circuits, etc, including some of the Timers from JoeD, Brian, etc. I'd highly recommend their "Camera Controller timers" but mostly because of the refresh stuff. I seldom change any of my delay times on my cams except sometimes during the rut, I like to have a delay of 10 or 15 sseconds incase a buck is chasing a doe. Otherwise, 30 sec or a minute is what I use on all my cams....

I don't sell any timers, by the way but have built cam controllers using the IC's from both JoeD and Brian. The parts are roughly 20 bucks for everything, including the switches, battery holders, etc...

Tinhorn
 


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