This may seem like a dumb question but I have often wordered why there are no Rocky Mountain elk in the Eastern Sierras. We have Rocky Mtn mule deer and the country sure looks similar to your typical elk habitat throughout the mountain West. I know Nevada and Oregon has them so I would think that it would be possible for them to end up in CA after generations and generations. Any thoughts as to why they do not inhabit the Eastern high sierras? I can only think that our politicians would scare them away, LOL. I am not talking about the possibility of transplanting them here, but why don't we have any truly wild native populations?
- Thread starter SDHNTR
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CA does not have Rocky Mountain mule deer or whitetails. We have several indigenous sub species of mulies, including blacktails. There are RM Elk in far NE CA. They migrated in from Idaho and Northern Nevada. Based on what several folks up there have told me, they are not highly regarded by the local ranchers as they are very destructive to fences, etc. Apparently they are responding to changes in habitat, including the advance of juniper into areas formerly occupied by sage. I was led to believe that the DFG considers them non native and competition for the native mulies, which are in decline. If true, I doubt they would do much to encourage the spread of RM Elk.
Scott
Scott
Brian S
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DKScott
I believe we do have rocky mountain mule deer here in the state. The DFG came out with the book of deer about 2 years ago telling the story of our deer and naming all species that inhabit our state. The Rocky mountain variety inhabit the north east section of the state. I believe they start where in Inyo variety stop to the south and where the blacktails end 2/3 of the state in from the coast to the east border. THere was also some RMMD's transplanted to the San Bernadino range back in the late 40's. If I remember right the RMMD was third in population behind the Blacktail and the california mule deer. As to the Elk I really don't know. I thought they had some in the Tejon Ranch for $10k-$12k.
Brian
I believe we do have rocky mountain mule deer here in the state. The DFG came out with the book of deer about 2 years ago telling the story of our deer and naming all species that inhabit our state. The Rocky mountain variety inhabit the north east section of the state. I believe they start where in Inyo variety stop to the south and where the blacktails end 2/3 of the state in from the coast to the east border. THere was also some RMMD's transplanted to the San Bernadino range back in the late 40's. If I remember right the RMMD was third in population behind the Blacktail and the california mule deer. As to the Elk I really don't know. I thought they had some in the Tejon Ranch for $10k-$12k.
Brian
ranchwife
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DK Scott - you're right that we do have Rocky Mtn. Elk up here. Actually we have elk everywhere up here. My husband and I saw the first elk on the Modoc in our back yard (1 mile up the hill from us) last year and managed to find a complete set of dropped horns from the smaller bull (still a quite large 6 x 6). Are the elk a problem up here? No. They stay in the higher elevations. Are ranchers concerned about fence/crop damage? No more so than we are concerned with the neighbors cattle getting in with ours. Have we had to repair fences that the elk have gone through? In a few places where the wire was stretched. We are one of the larger cattle operations up here and so I know that ranchers aren't too concerned with fences/crops yet. I have also not heard anything about DFG being concerned about them competing with the deer. They each have their own niche in the environment and don't seem to be competing too much with each other. One reason why I think there hasn't been too much concern is because our deer herd is so much smaller than it used to be - DGF can partly be thanked for that along with the winter of 92.
I haven't heard of one rancher, DFG employee, USFS biologist, FWS employee, or member of the public that is concerned about the elk moving in. People are very glad they are here and feel that it is quite the honor to get the priviledge of seeing them. I know for a fact that there are quite a few bulls up here that would easily score in the Boone and Crocket record books. I know of a 9 x 12 that was seen up here (the guy saw it 15 yards from him). Our biggest concern up here is that DFG will allow the herd to be hunted to the piont that they leave the area or that all the bulls will be small 1-2 year bulls. This is what happened with the mule deer. Hunting the elk herd will cause them to spread, but if they are overhunted, we will lose the large herd and the large bulls.
The herds that have been established here on the Modoc are from Oregon, not Nevada.
I haven't heard of one rancher, DFG employee, USFS biologist, FWS employee, or member of the public that is concerned about the elk moving in. People are very glad they are here and feel that it is quite the honor to get the priviledge of seeing them. I know for a fact that there are quite a few bulls up here that would easily score in the Boone and Crocket record books. I know of a 9 x 12 that was seen up here (the guy saw it 15 yards from him). Our biggest concern up here is that DFG will allow the herd to be hunted to the piont that they leave the area or that all the bulls will be small 1-2 year bulls. This is what happened with the mule deer. Hunting the elk herd will cause them to spread, but if they are overhunted, we will lose the large herd and the large bulls.
The herds that have been established here on the Modoc are from Oregon, not Nevada.
Ranchwife,
my comments were based on conversations I had a few years ago with a couple ranchers that lease BLM land up past Devil's Garden. They both said they had trouble with elk barging through fences and knocking them down. One conversation occurred while watching 6-8 antelope jump a fence - something I'm told they are not known to do. I spoke with the DFG biologist for the area after my hunt and asked whether they were going to have a season for elk. He said possibly someday, but that they were not considered native and would not be transplanted or otherwise encouraged to expand in the state. I can understand why the residents would want to see them do well and be hunted at least a little.
You're right about Oregon. I was thinking about the stories of occassional whitetails showing up in the state.
Brian S,
The Tejon herd is private and to my knowledge does not range off the ranch. Not sure about any transplants. All the deer I have seen have been Southern or Desert Mule Deer. The NE part of the state gets migrants, but as far I know there is no resident herd. I know the deer I have seen up there are relatively small, just like down here. That DFG deer hunting guide book has a run down on all species in the state. I'll have to dig it out.
Scott
my comments were based on conversations I had a few years ago with a couple ranchers that lease BLM land up past Devil's Garden. They both said they had trouble with elk barging through fences and knocking them down. One conversation occurred while watching 6-8 antelope jump a fence - something I'm told they are not known to do. I spoke with the DFG biologist for the area after my hunt and asked whether they were going to have a season for elk. He said possibly someday, but that they were not considered native and would not be transplanted or otherwise encouraged to expand in the state. I can understand why the residents would want to see them do well and be hunted at least a little.
You're right about Oregon. I was thinking about the stories of occassional whitetails showing up in the state.
Brian S,
The Tejon herd is private and to my knowledge does not range off the ranch. Not sure about any transplants. All the deer I have seen have been Southern or Desert Mule Deer. The NE part of the state gets migrants, but as far I know there is no resident herd. I know the deer I have seen up there are relatively small, just like down here. That DFG deer hunting guide book has a run down on all species in the state. I'll have to dig it out.
Scott
Kentuck
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I've heard and read that there are RMMD in NE CA and I saw a couple of bruiser Bucks while on my Likely Tables Antelope hunt up on the Garden.
There are also RM Elk up there. A rancher I got introduced to said the winter before we hunted for antelope there he had a small group of 6-pointers on his back pasture. He was glad they were there although he had fence problems with them. They also have a hunt for them. I believe last year was the first year. The tag is the North East zone. I believe this tag is good for most of NE corner of CA.
There are also RM Elk up there. A rancher I got introduced to said the winter before we hunted for antelope there he had a small group of 6-pointers on his back pasture. He was glad they were there although he had fence problems with them. They also have a hunt for them. I believe last year was the first year. The tag is the North East zone. I believe this tag is good for most of NE corner of CA.
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Howdy new to the BB. I live in Nevada. Didn't know you all had RME in CA. Knew you had Tule Elk along Hwy 395 down towards Lone Pine. I knew you had Roosevelt's up in the Eureka area. I hope Ca manages the RME better than they do their deer herd.
Enough of my jibberish. You all have a great day!
SDHNTR,
It might be there are no elk in the Eastern Sierras because of a lack of winter range.When the snow hits elk wind up where people like to build houses and run cows.Many ranchers are tolerable of wildlife but there are limits to their tolerance.Shrinking winter range & competition/damage to agriculture would probably hinder elk in the E. Sierras.
It might be there are no elk in the Eastern Sierras because of a lack of winter range.When the snow hits elk wind up where people like to build houses and run cows.Many ranchers are tolerable of wildlife but there are limits to their tolerance.Shrinking winter range & competition/damage to agriculture would probably hinder elk in the E. Sierras.
Ca DFG has transplanted elk into Syskiyou Co. for years. Got elk from Oregon. CA traded Rio Grand turkeys for elk.
The west slope of the Seirras would have a hard time supporting elk. As previously mentioned their is very little winter range, and what there is would be on private property. Land owners don't like elk going through there fences and eating in there yards. Also CA can't adequetly winter the migratory deer so how can it support elk. On the summer range USFS management practices are not to conducive to grow elk. Old age and solid conifer stands create a closed canopy that does not create forbs and grass stands to develop. In other words poor food quantity and quality.
The west slope of the Seirras would have a hard time supporting elk. As previously mentioned their is very little winter range, and what there is would be on private property. Land owners don't like elk going through there fences and eating in there yards. Also CA can't adequetly winter the migratory deer so how can it support elk. On the summer range USFS management practices are not to conducive to grow elk. Old age and solid conifer stands create a closed canopy that does not create forbs and grass stands to develop. In other words poor food quantity and quality.
OR186,
That would be a hinderance to putting elk in the Sierra, but its just never been part of their range. The Tule elk occupy that niche in the lower elevations and mule deer in the higher elevations. In the more northern areas, we have Roosevelt elk. From what I understand, the habitat changes (e.g cessation of logging and maturing forests) that are causing the mule deer to decline are acceptable to RM elk and they are extending their range as the mulies recede. Any wildlife biologists on these boards?
That would be a hinderance to putting elk in the Sierra, but its just never been part of their range. The Tule elk occupy that niche in the lower elevations and mule deer in the higher elevations. In the more northern areas, we have Roosevelt elk. From what I understand, the habitat changes (e.g cessation of logging and maturing forests) that are causing the mule deer to decline are acceptable to RM elk and they are extending their range as the mulies recede. Any wildlife biologists on these boards?
COHunter
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More tree's = less Deer = more Elk. Simple math if you ask me. Tree-huggers help Elk, but really hurt the Deer. Depending on which one is your favorite to hunt makes it a +/- for you. I prefer Deer, but most of my buddies (all in fact) prefer Elk and could care less about the Elk outcompeting the Deer.
Elk are like weeds, they can get out of control
Elk are like weeds, they can get out of control
One Track
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Just a side note. According to a reliable source, the RM Elk on the Tejon Ranch are facing a terrible problem. The herd is so small, that they are inner-breeding. The ranch has be turned down by, I forget who, maybe the DFG, on transplanting more RM Elk onto the ranch for breeding purposes. The reliable source believes that their years are very limited. I'm not an expert, I'm just repeating what I was told. I have seen two of the monster racks that have come off of that ranch. Very impressive.
While pig hunting, I have seen a few elk on the ranch. Beautiful!
While pig hunting, I have seen a few elk on the ranch. Beautiful!
