Saw a strange oen this morning

songdog

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Took the trash out before church this morning and looked at the dirt road down below the house.  At the far end, through the branches of a big oak, I thought that I could see two dogs fighting.  I walked to the other end of the yard to get a better look and it turned out to be a big hawk and a coyote going at it.  The hawk was sitting on top of something (I'm assuming a rabbit since there are so many down there) and the coyote kept running in and trying to steal it from the hawk.  It looked like the coyote finally got the rabbit and then basically walked off.  The hawk then sat there kind of dejected for about 5 minutes and then flew away empty handed.

I always knew that calling coyotes was just playing on their desire to steal an easy meal from someone else... I've just never seen it actually happen before.
 

bubba

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Were you tempted to intervene?

I guess I would have just watched myself.  Watching animals go about their business fascinates me.  I am glad my kids enjoy this also.  They are glued to the TV during TNN outdoors.  They are excited about hunting with me soon.  I'm thinking about getting an NEF .410 to start them off on shotgun.  Dp you think this is too small?  I don't want to discourage them when they miss, or with too much recoil with a 20.  I have all girls and they all handle the .22 LR very well.  What would be your recommendation on proper sizes to break them in in shotguns and rifle calibers?
 

songdog

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I started my son with the usual Daisy BB gun when he was about four.  Taught him how to be safe, use iron sights, etc.  

Recently I moved him up to a Rouge Rifle Chipmunk single shot .22.  When you see one you start to laugh since they're so small.  But for his little 5 year old frame, it fits him perfectly.  I put a compact Leupold 2.5x scope on it.  It has a huge field of view and lots of eye relief.  Perfect to learn how to use a scope from iron sights.

As far as a shotgun goes - I have a friend who bought one of those Rossi combo guns (.22 barrel and 20ga barrel) for his kids.  The .22 is fine but the 20ga kicks pretty badly since the gun is so light.  Enough so, that his kids didn't want to shoot it any more (8 and 10 years old).  

I experimented with a few different handloads with really light shot charges and got the recoil down to where they didn't mind it.  They were really light loads - 3/4oz of shot going out the barrel about 1000 fps... but they broke clays and the kids loved it.  When it comes to birds, you might be able to slip in the real shells since nobody seems to feel the recoil when there's fur or feathers in the sights.

I'd go this route before the .410 route.  It's hard enough for an expert to hit with a .410 let alone a kid.  Plus, the recoil of these "light" 20 ga loads was better than the average .410 load throwing is standard 11/16oz of shot.

That's the best solution I've come up with for a shotgun.  It's still pretty tough when they're little.  They need a smal light gun that fits them but that same light gun can be no help in the recoil department.  

On another note - I've toyed with the idea of drilling out some of the buttstock on one of those Rossi shotguns and filling it with lead shot.  The weight that seems to make the gun hard to manage for little hands is the weight out at the end of the barrel, not in the buttstock.  If I can make it a pound or so heavier that way, it makes a big difference in the recoil department.

Hope this helps...

(Edited by songdog at 11:17 am on Aug. 5, 2002)
 

bubba

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Thanks.  I think a 20 gauge shooting light loads would be a good bet.

I got my girls a CZ Youth 22.  They have done pretty good with iron sights.  I also like the fact that it is a bolt action, so its getting them used to working a bolt.  For scope practice, I have them shooting the new 17 HMR.  Its a little heavy, so they are shooting it off a rest for now.  But there little if any recoil.  They love shooting with a scope.  They are actually pretty good.  At home, they practice with a pellet gun.

(Edited by bubba at 1:53 pm on Aug. 5, 2002)
 

Eric Mayer

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The Chipmunks are now available in the 17 HMR caliber.

How cool is that?

:)

Eric
 

songdog

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I saw that too.  I don't think that I would have changed my sons from a regular .22 but that still cool...
 

SoCalTed

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I just purchased a single shot NEF / NRA 20g for my son.  It feels pretty light, so I am looking for a slip-on gel recoil pad to assist with the kick.  Unfortunately, he will not have a lot of time to get used to it before opener, but I'm sure it will be easier on him than the 12.

click here to see: H&R Firearms: NEF NRA PREDATOR
 

SoCalTed

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In high school I had buddy with a press and we reloaded .38's and .45s. Had I been able to find dies for the .22 hornet (at that time) I would have bought equipment.  Now since I am either teaching people to shoot with .22's or hunting upland birds. I find it easier to purchase a brick of .22s or 12g & 20g's on sale at Walmart.

Too bad I don't reload, because then I could make some lighter loads for my son's 20.

I've got tons of brass laying around, though!
 

headshot223

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Hey I started with a Chimpmunk, I still use it also. I look pretty funning shooting it but hey there are always dead squirrels/rabbits. My first shotgun was a NEF 410. the 2 1/2 inch shell in my opinion are not enough so I opt for 3 inchers. 5 and 6 shot works the best for me. That is what I use for squirrels when there is a lot of leaves still on the trees. If your upland hunting I would go with somethign a little bigger though. A 20 gauge with light skeet loads work good for rough grouse.

Headshot223
 
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