Shooting lead vs lead-free

[HUNTING5150]

Looking for some guidance on the difference in shooting lead-free rounds. First-off, sorry if I don't have the proper terminlogy, but I'll try and explain whats going on.
I had previously zeroed in my 30-06 to 200 yards using Hornady American Whitetail ammo in 150gr. Everything has been going great using that ammo at the range for practice. I was using this ammo since I got a good price on it. Now, fast forward, and since I'll be going deer hunting in a lead-free zone I had to get new ammo. I chose, and bought, Barnes VOR-Tx 150gr. I went to the range to make sure my rifle and new ammo were zeroed in. I first started with the Hornady and it still shot well at the 200 yard range. After awhile I switched to the Barnes ammo and was off paper. It was really off in comparison to the Hornady. I had run out of time at the range, but am going back soon to re-zero in my rifle with this new ammo.
So, is this normal? Do I just have to re-zero in the new ammo, or is there something else I should be aware of or considereing? Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[hks95134]

Copper does not expand, so shot placement becomes more critical, same as in bowhunting.

So up the power of the load, aim for the heart, hold and squeeze, and don't take a long shot -- stalk closer.

Europeans have banned lead ammo for hunting decades ago, so it is about time that the USA did the same.

 

[zavodizhevsk]

I've experienced this, as well. A 150 grain copper bullet has a significantly different point of impact than a 150 grain lead bullet out of my .308. Even at 100 yards, the difference is considerable. Re-sight for the ammo you'll be hunting, and it will be ok.


Sent from my straight key using Morse code.

 

[HUNTING5150]

Thanks zavo.
Glad to hear its a normal thing, and it's an easy correction. Thanks.

 

[ltdann]

Copper does not expand, so shot placement becomes more critical, same as in bowhunting.

So up the power of the load, aim for the heart, hold and squeeze, and don't take a long shot -- stalk closer.

Europeans have banned lead ammo for hunting decades ago, so it is about time that the USA did the same.

There are so many erroneous statements here, I don't know where to start.

 

[mischief209]

I shot 180gr barnes, in my .06 and when I went from fusions to barnes there was no difference. Literally shot 2 barnes after 8 fusions I used to sight in and hit the same mark, didn't have to adjust anything, and about copper not expanding, here's my 180gr barnes...

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81815&d=1401161853&thumb=1

 

[goldenarrow49]

Copper does not expand, so shot placement becomes more critical, same as in bowhunting.

So up the power of the load, aim for the heart, hold and squeeze, and don't take a long shot -- stalk closer.

Europeans have banned lead ammo for hunting decades ago, so it is about time that the USA did the same.

Are you drunk?

Copper will not hit the same POI usually. Copper is lighter than lead for the same volume so a 150 grn copper bullet is longer than a 150 grn lead bullet. This changes the BC and the bearing surface in the barrel making it a rare case that copper will group the same as lead.

As for expansion copper hunting bullets do expand but they don't mushroom like a lead bullet. They kill more like a broadhead cutting vital organs. A lead bullet is more likely to drop a deer in its tracks

 

[solus]

Copper does not expand, so shot placement becomes more critical, same as in bowhunting.

So up the power of the load, aim for the heart, hold and squeeze, and don't take a long shot -- stalk closer.

Europeans have banned lead ammo for hunting decades ago, so it is about time that the USA did the same.

This is TOTAL BS. Sorry but you are 100% wrong. Copper bullets need a minimum velocity to expand. I have seen the difference on targets I have shot while developing loads for my rifles. Of course longer distances mean a lower velocity so it doesnt work well for very long distances. Now that has been said lots of the newer loads work well. I have taken a couple of animals using lead free rounds and they work just fine. Some were drt where they stood. Barnes even posts it there website. Its been discussed on here many times before and ultimately it comes down to distance and velocity of the round.

 

[Brnsvllyjohn]

As far as a different load hitting a different area on the target that is very common. I have owned and hunted with a lot of different rifles and only 2 that I could think of were very forgiving on different loads. Most of the others would be or could be way off if I changed bullet weights or types. I have an 06 that I really struggle to get good groups with and when I get it right it can be very good. I have a 7mm mag that does not seem to care and almost everything is around the bull if I switch brands or types of ammo only fine adjustments are required. On the 06 they will be 6-8 inches off at 100 yards from load to load, on the 7 mm if it is more than 2-3 inches off I am surprised. You need to re-zero every time you change loads. What I like to do is try to buy 3-4 boxes of ammo at a time and hope they came from the same lot and that they shoot the same. I will shoot 2-3 from each box to verify this so I know I can trust it latter. A few years ago Remington came out with some Core-Lokt ultra ammo and the 7 shot it well. I had 3 boxes. 2 years later when I was down to 1 box I purchased 3 more. The second batch hit 6 inches from the bull where the others were zeroed. That is the worst the 7 mm has ever been but the newer stuff all shot the same so I adjusted my scope. I have been experimenting with non lead ammo lately with a couple of guns and so far the 7 really likes the Hornady stuff. It hits the same as the Federal accubonds I have been hunting with (just lucky). I am almost out of conventional ammo so I am making the change to lead free ammo earlier than required here, at least with the 7 mag.
I get really frustrated with guys in camp who buy new ammo on the way to camp and never shoot it because they already shot brand X and brand X should be the same as brand Y. NO you do not know that, the only way to know that is to shoot. Coming from a hand loading background loaders get really anal about very minor things and those little things make a huge difference.
I try to support the local stores but for ammo availability if you are picky about what you want the internet is the only way to go when ordering 3-5 boxes of ammo at a time. I buy my shotgun stuff locally and my rifle ammo on line.
John

 

[Brnsvllyjohn]

One additional thing that I do. I save my targets from year to year and make notes. I can shoot all the older ammo that I did not like or do not feel I have enough of to hunt with for practice. If I have to change my scope adjustments to accommodate a different load I know where the older stuff should hit. Example when I changed from 1 load to another I had to adjust 2-3 inches high to the right because the new ammo was slightly low left. Now if I have 8-10 shells of the old stuff and I just want to practice from different shooting positions I expect the old stuff to hit high and right. As long as I shoot a good group I do not care how far off the bull it is, I am just practicing. If it does not hit 2-3 inches high right then something is wrong. I can and do shoot a shell or 2 of the new stuff that I am hunting with to verify zero all the time but too try to hit a 2 inch dot with the old stuff is not necessary "it is just practice". I have actually had some shooters at ranges tell me over and over I am not near the bull but I have a decent group. They tell me to adjust my scope. They do not understand that I did not expect to hit the bull and if I did it would not have been where the bullet should have gone. I do not re-zero when I am just burning ammo. I have no idea what I would do with all those boxes of old ammo if I did not just punch paper with them.
When verifying before a hunt I will usually just shot 2-3 shots very slowly with a cold barrel and my hunting ammo because that first shot is going to be with a cold barrel.
John

 

[Bubblehide]

This is TOTAL BS. Sorry but you are 100% wrong. Copper bullets need a minimum velocity to expand. I have seen the difference on targets I have shot while developing loads for my rifles. Of course longer distances mean a lower velocity so it doesnt work well for very long distances. Now that has been said lots of the newer loads work well. I have taken a couple of animals using lead free rounds and they work just fine. Some were drt where they stood. Barnes even posts it there website. Its been discussed on here many times before and ultimately it comes down to distance and velocity of the round.

^^^^^^this^^^^^^^
The biggest thing I would first check is, the distance of the bull it from your LANs and groves, I.e., the overall length of the new rounds. Ideally, you want the bull it to be 1/1000th from the LANs and groves. You can easily check this yourself with plasti gage, available in auto parts stores. Check both the copper and lead factory rounds. If one is 1/1000th from the LANs and grooves, then use a micrometer to measure the round length. From there you can go to your local ammo store and test factory ammo, or hand load your own, if you can.

Bullets are designed to expel their energy best at specific velocity ranges, I.e., transfer their kinetic energy, which is absorbed into the flesh and bone of the animal it hits. As was previously pointed out, copper is lighter than lead. So the copper bullets need to be a little longer than the lead bullets to achieve the same weight. There is an advantage in this, as a longer bobtail bullet fly better, giving better down range accuracy, better performance in light winds...

I have harvested plenty of animals with both lead and copper bullets. My experience demonstrates that copper bullets are very effective. The advantage of copper, is that they are more effective at penetration. As such, one is wise to step down in bullet weight, and attain greater velocity and down range accuracy, all while maintaining or improving kinetic transfer, I.e., copper bullets are better at killing. Keep in mind, that if you do step down in bulletin weight, you still need a bullet designed for big game, if that is what you intend to hunt. If anyone doubts what I say, give a call to a few African game guides, they will tell you to bring your magnum rifle chambered in 300 or under from al but their very largest game animals, yes, copper is that effective. Granted, at extreme range, when they are no longer at that optimal rang of velocity, they no longer out perform lead, unless of course you are shooting a cooper bullet designed for extreme distances.

Best of luck with finding a bullet that shoots well. It might take a little patience, but you should be able to do it without to much trouble.