The downside of wild hogs on the Big Island

[doccherry]

Haven't been big game hunting for almost 2 weeks. Will go a couple times next week to make up. In the meantime, I've got some work to do. A couple evenings ago my dogs started barking and ran to the far end of the lanai [covered deck]. BARK BARK!! I told them to hush and called them back into the house. The next morning I went outside and the entire front yard was rototilled up. All that beautiful and expensive sod was turned upside down and inside out. And bear in mind that this is inside a fenced and gated community. Farther up the road houses had damage to their exterior lighting. Seems the hogs like to rub up against the lamp posts and knock them over. I'm standing there cussing and along comes a fat boar, trotting merrily up the street in broad daylight. He passed quickly and crossed into the brush so I didn't have a chance to grab the crossbow.

I was talking to a Hawaiian guy the other day and he told me the pigs have become such a nuisance around his area that they will just stand in the road and not move. A large boar stood still as he rode up on his bike [I assume he meant bicycle] and then rushed him. Scared the heck out of him.

Talking to a mac nut farmer the other day and he told me he has 10 mac nut trees. The pigs got all but about 10 pounds of nuts. That means they got about 500 pounds and he got 10 pounds.

The coffee farmers are losing tons of coffee beans to the pigs. Some are losing their shirts as a consequence.

Oscar the Grouch [another mac nut guy who is a real grouch and who's name is Oscar] has virtually begged me and my friends to come up and shoot the pigs. They come onto his property to eat the mac nuts and they squeal and oink so much at night that he can't sleep. He has to close the windows but then it gets too hot to sleep. He opens them and it cools down but then the pigs make so much racket that he has to close the windows and then he cooks half to death. The cycle repeats itself all night long. That's probably why he's such a grouch.

A hunting buddy up the road in Holualoa, up in the green jungle, asked me to come up and help him sort out a giant boar that is sleeping behind his garage. He is an experienced hunter and estimates its weight at 300+ pounds. It has been tearing the neighborhood apart and then snoozes all day in this guys shrubs. He is very concerned about going into the backyard with that thing sleeping back there. Personally, I'd carry a shotgun loaded with buckshot and to hell with neighbors who complain about the noise.

Guys, these pigs on the Big Island are exploding in numbers and they are causing some serious problems. My freezer is filled to max capacity and I give away more than I eat. We need some help so all JHO'ers charter a 747 and come on over. You can stay at my place if you promise to kill a few thousand pigs while you're here.

Aloha for now. I gotta go out and put up another fence.

I can't seem to edit the topic title. I meant to say destructive, not destruction.

Oh, well. Blame it on my old age.

 

[Late-Bloomer]

Aloha doccherry,

I'm brand new to this forum but me and my 18 yr old son would love to come up on a weekend and give you a hand one day if you don't mind...

I'll wait and let the "regulars" on here go first but if you ever need us we're in Honolulu....

Aloha...

 

[MarvB]

Dang Doc...haven't been to the islands since my honeymoon 17+ years ago but I think that a roadtrip is in order.
I think the wifey needs to spend some days on the beach while I poke pigs with sharp sticks!!

 

[THE ROMAN ARCHER]

alright DOC, i am packing up right now! just send the plane ticket Fed-X, hurry!.....tra

 

[Speckmisser]

Title fixed... I know, this tech stuff is tricky for you old geezers.

Hawaii didn't work out for this fall, although I tried... but too much else going on. Maybe I'll finally get out there before all the hogs are extinct, though.

 

[beastslayer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (doccherry @ Aug 31 2007, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Guys, these pigs on the Big Island are exploding in numbers and they are causing some serious problems. My freezer is filled to max capacity and I give away more than I eat. We need some help so all JHO'ers charter a 747 and come on over. You can stay at my place if you promise to kill a few thousand pigs while you're here.[/b]

Now this is a job for Speck (organizing a JHO POR in Doc's backyard).

 

[Taylor31]

If you are seriouse Doc, I am down to come to Hawaii in a few months and kill some hogs. I'll even find a place to stay if you can show me where the hogs are.

 

[Kentuck]

Anyone there try electric fences? For hogs you only need one to be a few inches off the ground. I've got a friend here in CA that would have all the info and supplies.

 

[Taylor31]

Im not sure how hot you would have to get the fence, I used to use alot of hot wire and hot wire offsets on barbed wire. It kept in the cows and the calves, even when we did fence line weaning, but the hogs just rushed through. It became a problem when they would ground the fence by pulling the wire and offsets off of the t-posts or barbed wire. Those hogs always find a way if they want to be somewhere.

 

[Uncle Ji]

Aloha Bruce, can you fence in your yard and let the dogs run loose? Or get red flood bulbs and motion detector lights and have the crossbow at the ready. I'm hoping to get to Big Island this bird season, maybe we can pop Kalij and Erckels together for a day. I have a friend of a friend who has land in Holualoa and he's also plagued with pigs but he allows and loves handgun hunting on his land so i'm bring my Taurus model 44, i'll stay in touch. I haven't been around much due to both parents passing away within a short time of each other my mom first from a long illness, and my dad from a broken heart after mom died, I have been forced to move back to Oahu to take over morgage of parents place, and also was let go by my employer (State) due to only partial recovery from industrial injury thus not meeting my job description any more. Had to get rid of my pet pig Lucille and just had a container load of stuff delivered from Maui to Kailua, Oahu. Last 6 months been hell but look forward to better times soon hunting and fishing with friends again.
A hui hou, Ji

 

[doccherry]

Uncle Ji:

My condolences on your parents and I hope your recovery continues on a fast track. I know a few spots where you can hunt hogs with virtually no walking and I know some very good bird hunting spots on Mauna Kea where you have to walk very, very little. You keep in touch and any time you get over this way, be sure to call in advance. You'll have a place to stay and I'll take you hunting. I'll even provide the guns.

Hang in there, my friend.

Bruce

 

[Bigisle87]

i'll vouch for doccherry on this deal. ive lived in hawaii my whole life and honestly there are more pigs than ever before on the big island.i hate to break the sad reality to some people who might be offended by this, but heres how myself AND MANY OTHER LOCALS see it...

so many well-to-do types are moving on to the big island, buying up large chunks of former hunter-friendly ranch, farm, and undeveloped lands and promptly locking up these areas completely, not allowing hunters or anyone else onto their property. their excuse, and attitude towards hunters, even when asked politely in most cases, is that "its my land now, why should i let anyone on it to hunt?? i want it for my personal refuge for relaxation." another common thing you hear is "hunting is so barbaric, i wont allow it on my property, with you hurting and killing the animals". so this, in turn, lets pig populations go unchecked for numbers of years on end, causing our current pig population explosion.
keep in mind, now, that these SAME people, are the ones now lobbying the state to A)set out poison to kill these pigs, B)snare-trap them, or C)have hotlines set up so that they can call and have the pigs trapped and subsequently euthenized, making the meat not fit for human consumption. HOW RETARDED IS THIS? HOW can poisioning a pig to death, or snaring his foot or mouth, and left in that snare for days, or until death (god knows the state has nowhere near enough manpower to check snares daily) be a more feasible solution than letting the hunters onto their property to harvest these animals, and then either feed their families, of families that in the hawaiian spirit of aloha (which is slowly being eradicated by these same jerks) could be given the meat to make use of???? exactly, i dont know either. it's f'n rediculous.
either way, the big island will be dealing with a HUGE pig epidemic within a year or two, if something isnt done soon. i can take a walk into the mac nut field behind my house at ANY time of day, and if i cant find at least one pig either eating or resting in brush piles in that field, i will be VERY suprised. it's quite normal for me to have pigs in my yard at night slaughtering my banana trees one by one, or rooting stuff up. my freezer also is full, and i too give away a lot of meat. i'm more selective in what i shoot ( i try to kill mostly boars, or really fat sows) but they're in all ages, shapes and sizes back there, indicating there will be no end to them soon.

 

[Sierra_Dave]

Bigisle87,

I agree with you, but it's the same on the mainland, too. People have such a negative opinion of hunters that it blinds them from the truth that it is part of who we all are as humans. But have no fear...the company that exterminated all the wild pigs on Santa Cruz island [ Prohunt from New Zealand] is coming to Hawaii. Sweet...they shot and left to rot in the field 5,000 wild pigs and got paid millions. They have been contracted by "The Nature Conservancy" to eradicate wild pigs, deer and goats in Hawaii.

The National Park Service, which owes its life to hunters through our taxes is on board for the ride too.

You guys need to write some emails to your local politicians. If regular hunting was allowed, these populations of animals could be kept in check. The way to frame this is to put forward that we are not a bunch of criminals with guns, but family people...

Also, if your freezer is full. Use an organization like "Hunter and Farmers" http://www.fhfh.org. You can donate the meat. If guns are a concern, you can propose archery hunts. Father-son hunts and mother-daughter hunts put us all in the right light. You don't have to believe in religion or join the groups to avail yourself of these groups.

Rather than complain here, we could all write to local people in charge. I wrote to the NPS in Pt. Reyes about the planned use of birth control instead of hunting. I offered solutions involving charity, legal controlled and regular hunting and archery. It was just as easy as writing this post.

Hunters' taxes pay for the parks and public lands that everyone else uses and we should be allowed to hunt them....
okay..sorry...I'm getting off my soap box...

 

[Bigisle87]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sierra_Dave @ Sep 5 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Bigisle87,

I agree with you, but it's the same on the mainland, too. People have such a negative opinion of hunters that it blinds them from the truth that it is part of who we all are as humans. But have no fear...the company that exterminated all the wild pigs on Santa Cruz island [ Prohunt from New Zealand] is coming to Hawaii. Sweet...they shot and left to rot in the field 5,000 wild pigs and got paid millions. They have been contracted by "The Nature Conservancy" to eradicate wild pigs, deer and goats in Hawaii.[/b]

this is nice to know! i had no idea. i'll be honest with you, though.. the last time the state contracted "professional hunters" to go up on mauna kea, they lasted one (1) day up there. locals caught wind of them being there after shooting 300 or so sheep the first day, and the hunters were "asked" to leave while they still had their lives. needless to say, they were on one of the first planes off the island the next day. this is a true story.
now, if this will happen again, i cannot say for sure, but they WILL meet a lot of resistance, not necessarily from all hunters either. we do things a little differently out here in hawaii i guess. we cannot do anything about the private landowners who hire these clowns out, but we WILL fight for what's happening on our public lands. shoot, we're STILL trying to get the court decision overturned on the bi-yearly sheep eradication by helicopter. it's not going well for us, but we're still fighting.

 

[Uncle Ji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bigisle87 @ Sep 5 2007, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

we're STILL trying to get the court decision overturned on the bi-yearly sheep eradication by helicopter. it's not going well for us, but we're still fighting.[/b]

I thought it was already proven by researchers that killing the sheep had negative effects on the endangered Palila bird the eradication was supposed to protect. Sheep have been on Big Island for over 200 years, any damage would have happened YEARS ago. The Palila nest in Mamane trees, sheep feed on leaves of lower branches of Mamane tree so dummy environ-MENTAL-ists try to eradicate sheep to save the Mamane tree and thus the Palila bird. They reduced the sheep population with help from helicopter gunships from Pohakuloa training area (good target practice for them), but then researchers discovered that without the sheep the grass around the Mamane tree (the grass that the sheep was keeping under control) grows too tall and absorbs all the water (morning dew) that was going to the Mamane trees and these Mamane trees start dying off thus reducing the population of nesting Palila birds- backfire!

Pigs have been in the islands since the arrival of the first Polynesian explorers over 1500 years ago, how come they have only become a problem in the last 10 years? When I lived Big Island 25 years ago pigs were not a problem, and no guarantee when hunting. Here on Maui they are still not that common unless you use dogs but still not a guarantee. Snaring and leaving pigs to die a slow cruel death via starvation or infection from snare wounds is a waste and unethical. I know alot of ranches don't allow hunting due to fear of liability lawsuits from irresponsible hunters but a signed release form and personal liability insurance can remedy this. The NRA used to offer personal liability insurance at no extra charge, too bad no more.

The Nature Conservancy especially here on Maui is a joke. I was recommended by the DLNR to the NC for hunting NC lands to control deer and pigs. They could not refuse me with my credentials so they signed me up, but made excuses on how and when I could hunt, and after several no-shows on their part when trying to gain access on NC lands I found out the NC control hunters were a like a private club these guys doing there best to preserve their "exclusive hunting rights" on NC lands and doing their best to discourage others from hunting NC lands. They really had no desire to eradicate game from their private hunting preserve. Now they have to resort to outside PAID hunters- Shame on them!

 

[Bigisle87]

uncle Ji-

agreed on ALL counts!!!! it is proven that killing the sheep had a negative effect on the mamane trees, as well as palila birds.. but with judge samuel king still alive though retired i believe, this will never be overturned, sadly.. who knows where to go next on this one.

 

[Uncle Ji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bigisle87 @ Sep 6 2007, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

uncle Ji-

agreed on ALL counts!!!! it is proven that killing the sheep had a negative effect on the mamane trees, as well as palila birds.. but with judge samuel king still alive though retired i believe, this will never be overturned, sadly.. who knows where to go next on this one.[/b]

ARGH Sam King is still alive??? He must be pushing 100 years, I remember when he ran for governor against John Burns in the mid '60's.

 

[Bigisle87]

yeah i believe the old bag is still kicking.

 

[Nic Barca]

Being that I'm in the know, I'm gonna try to set some records strait on the new zealand guys from Prohunt, just so there are no misconceptions. They are not going for any all out eradication. Hunting is to occur on lands on molokai and Maui where tnc is already conducting ungulate control through hunting. No hunting is supposed to occur on state owned land. They will also be trapping and collaring pigs and goats to monitor their movements via gps tracking devices on Maui, molokai, and Kauai (I find that part to be really interesting). There will be no hunting on public lands and once again, no island wide eradication. This is also a short term project lasting 6 to 8 months to evaluate the effectiveness of contract hunting in TNC preserves in Hawaii. The data will be used to evaluate effectiveness of conservation fencing and this is also an opportunity to study animal behavior and movement patterns. And if anyone is thinking they can threaten these guys out, I met some of them and I can tell you, they are a rugged bunch. I guess there might have been threats from hunters on Molokai saying they would shoot at the helicopter; the guys at work had a good laugh at that because the new zealand guys would probably shoot right back at them from the helicopter.

They will be hunting on 7,780 acres(1.7%) of Maui and 9,640 acres (5.8%) of Molokai.

Yes, these are the same guys who eradicated pigs from Santicruz Island where ...I can't remember if it was 5,000 or 50,000 pigs killed.

As for the sheep eradication on Mauna kea, it's a shame. The forest was doomed at that point either way. Fountain grass is/was invading the area and with fountain grass, you have increased fire hazard. Not that sheep were keeping it down; the sheep, although they did also browse low lying branches of the mamane and naio trees, also prevented regeneration by eating new seedlings. Therefore, what you have in the long run is a forest of many mature trees, but very few young ones. So now the old trees are dying of old age and the fountain grass easily moves into the openings further hampering regeneration. The sheep did not control fountain grass; they did browse some new shoots but not agressively. If it burns down now, it is all gone and all that will be left is the fountain grass which is fire adapted. The palila bird was the pawn used to get the sheep reduced in numbers but it was really about the entire Naio-Mamane forest ecosystem up there. Too bad for the hunting. Reducing sheep numbers would have had a positive effect on forest regeneration in areas where fauntain grass is not established yet. However, in areas where fountain grass is established, there might have been neither possitive nor negative effects of reducing sheep numbers... which were HUGE. I do not believe sheep were in this area at high density for 200 years; maybe 100. I remember reading that, and I don't remember the date, a rancher was raising sheep up there, some went feral and from then on there were feral sheep in ever increasing numbers. And as for the effects of pigs, I have read reports from way back when, and the hapu'u tree fern forests of the big island were supposedly so thick that they formed tangled masses that were inpenetrable. Now, the pigs eat the hapu'u and I can't say whether the larger european boars ate more, faster, but the pigs are eating hapu'u faster than they can regrow and reproduce. Therefore, it's been as though the forests has slowly but surely been getting thinned out. Hapu'u logs are also important nurse logs in wet forests for other trees. Without these nurse logs, some types of trees will have a difficult time reproducing. And with high pig numbers, the ground covers are either trashed, or non-existant. Only bare dirt which is a good place for noxious weeds to colonize. There is no bug life either in those areas , something of great concern to me. You know the forest is in good shape when the native insects are still there. It's real interesting. That's some of the reasons why I recomend animal control in high qulaity remaining native forests. I also recomend game animal enhancement in non-native forests, which comprise most of the state's land area (unless your on the big island). There's a lot of controversy when it comes to pig and sheep control on the big island and I'ld rather not touch it with a 20 foot pole. Sorry if I offended anyone and I hope I cleared some things up.

 

[Bigisle87]

no offense taken, nic! glad you could give us some input on the subject for sure! i, too would rather not get into the sheep thing on mauna kea much, as i dont know enough detailed information to make a great case, but do know some of the main sticking points (like you addressed) about it that obviously makes it such a shame they're STILL eradicating up there.