Using the MS20

Tinhorn

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
3,516
Reaction score
0
Gantley's buddy Jon did some tinkering on the MS20 and sent me the following information.  He added a transistor and a few other minimal components that does 3 things:

1.  prevents the MS20 from being retriggered by additional movement until
        the delay time has expired (made it non-retriggerable)

2.  The shutter is only pressed for 10 seconds when motion is sensed

3.  Has a Delay Time between Pix's that is adjustable by a variable
         resistor (for up to 7 minutes)

      ****************************************************

He says these additional components can be inserted in the location of some of the original components that were removed so the whole thing can be enclosed in the original MS20 housing......


I haven't made these mod's yet, on an MS20, but plan too pretty soon.  It looks good tho.  Here is the Schematic he sent me.  His added components are inside the dotted line box but be sure to make those changes indicated by the "NOTE:" to the changed box's left.

http://www.nightowl.net/~tinhorn/ms20mod.jpg


Can you believe this guy is not posting to our Forum ! ! !     We all need to do some arm twisting to get him onboard, he knows what he's doing.......

Thanx Mr. Gantley, for contacting Mr Jon


By-The-Way:  he also found some errors on my MS20 Schematic I posted and this drawing he sent me includes the corrections.  I am making a separate post to include the corrections to the Original MS20 circuitry so later on, interested guys can more easily find the corrected schematic.  A big Thanx for that too, Mr. Jon

Tinhorn
 

SWAMPFOOT

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2001
Messages
157
Reaction score
0
Tinhorn or any other electrical genius
 put that schematic in laymans terms, you know pics  to help all of us other non electrical geniuses  when you get time.  that will make a timer easy for the rest of us.  Man this jon guy really helped out.  this should keep the canons from going to sleep in auto mode  and give a 2min 30 sec delay right.?
 

Tinhorn

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
3,516
Reaction score
0
I'll be giving this a try in the next few days (I think) and will post some pix's of the completed board (unless somebody beats me to it)

Tinhorn
 

gizz

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
1,395
Reaction score
0
Hey Alright! Something i'm in tune to - MS20's
I will follow this thread as I have about 6 cams with the MS20.
Me thinks i'll lurk for a bit and "HOPEFULLY" find some time to re-ignite my internal homebrew craze.
 

gantley

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
for those of you wondering about the cost of this delay, i ordered all the parts listed on the layout that jon made from mouser.  the total cost with shipping was $31.  The price would have been even cheeper if i had ordered 25 or more pieces of each.  

on the same lines, getting the web master a complete update on modifing the ms20 / wm2 would be a good gester and quite helpfull for the new commer.  seems there has been other parts descovered that can be removed to clean up the cuircuit and a couple of componet changes to make the run better.
 

davered1

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2001
Messages
1,793
Reaction score
0
Gantley,

Nice work from Jon, have you completed your board? When you get it done can you post a pic of front and back for us to have a look at.

Thanks
 

gantley

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
o heck.  let me make something clear.  the $31 is for enought part to make 10 delay circuits.  so that is $3.10 for each delay circuit.
 

ArkansasElkHunter

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
0
Wheeeey!


Thats a little better.  I thought Jon must have specified some "NASA" type parts for you.  You know the $1200 hammer type.  haha    You had me all worked uo to try one untill you quoted the price.  

I think I still may wait for you or Tinhorn to post a picture of the actual modifications.
 

Jon5ja

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
722
Reaction score
0
Hi, everyone.
Here's a pic of the MS20 after my prototype mods to add the "inhibit" timer to keep the MS20 from retriggering for a set amount of time:



Also, here are links to a couple more pics:

Top view
Added parts

Sorry for the sorry picture quality.

This was done using some of the holes left after removing "unnecessary" components.  I'll leave the list of unnecessary parts to GAntley or I'll do it one of these days when I get time.  Next time I mod one I'll try to capture a play-by-play.

Just curious -- what sort of delay between pics are you MS20 users looking for?  Most likely, we could zero-in on a set of fixed value components to achieve something reasonable, and make the mod cost less than a buck (not the deer kind).

Also, how many volts is the battery most people are using for the power supply?

BTW, Ignore the LED in the pics... it's just for diagnostics.

Cheers!
Jon
 

ArkansasElkHunter

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
1,748
Reaction score
0
High Jon,

Good to have you on the forum.  Great  job with the sensor.   I think most people use 6 volts. I do.  I think typical times would be 0 sec (after the 10 sec relay closure, it takes about 4 sec to ensure a good shutter closure and 6 sec for the flach to charge), 30 sec, 60 sec, 5 min. 30 min, 60 min.  We could pare this down to 4 I'm sure.  0, 1min, 5 min and 30 min for me.    
 

Hill Hopper

Banned
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
1,570
Reaction score
0
Great work, and welcome to the board. I've got to try this. I'm sooooo swamped right now I shouldn't even be here right now, but I couldn't resist. When I uncover myself after next week, I.m going to try one and use a little add on opto board instead of the relay. Will post if I get it to work.
 

gantley

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
1:16 AM just finished hacking another MS20C / WM2.  I have written procedures for this.  I have a radio shack parts list and a mouser parts list.  by sunday night i should have the procedure posted.  

believe it or not, i made the inhibit circuit correct the first time and it tested okay.  they way i put this together was so simple i hurt all over.

RS 271-0211 is a 1 meg ohm pot.  if you need more time add a 1 meg resister in series.  this part is ugly and big but lends itself very well to being mounted in the camera housing for adjustments as desired.  

RS did not have a 150 mf electrolitic cap.  so i used a 220 (wish i kept the part number) radial electrolitic cap.

more later.... i am about to keel over in need of sleep.  73 de ki5lr
 

passgas55

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
270
Reaction score
0
Let me get this straight. These mods. are taking the place of a one shot timer? Also you have a variable time delay between pics up to 7 min. If so uusing the MS20 with those mods just made building a cam with a one shot timer easier and quick. I will build one as soon as I can locate all the componets to remove off the MS20. Good work!!!!!
 

Jon5ja

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
722
Reaction score
0
Hi, passgas55.

That's about the size of it.  It's kind of crude compared to a "real" timer based on 555's or a PIC microcontroller, but meets the objective that GAntley and I were trying to achieve -- namely, we didn't want continuous motion in front of the sensor to keep the relay engaged for so long that the Owl cameras shut down (3 minutes), and we wanted to inhibit reactivation for a couple of minutes between pictures.

I was tinkering with fixed-value components last night to see what would provide a reasonable non-adjustable set of values that someone could just stick together and forget it.  Since most people seem to be using 6 volt batteries, I adopted this approach myself.

Using a 100 uF capacitor, a 1M resistor in place of the pot, the 1M in series with the base of the 2N2907, and a 1K in place of the 470-ohm specified in my "modified" schematic, my prototype gave me about 9 seconds of shutter time if I'm just coming off "inhibit" mode (i.e. there has been continuous movement in front of the sensor during the delay time after a picture was taken), and up to 13 seconds if it'd been sitting "untriggered" for several minutes.  The delay between pics was about 2 minutes, 40 seconds.

Additionally, I did have to increase the value of R25 to 470K to achieve these shutter times after changing from 12 volts to 6 volts, and I had to decrease R28 to 33K to get enough base drive for Q4 to run my little 5-volt relay (that pulled 30 mA).  I also bypassed D2 since I am now running on 6 volts, and didn't want to lose that 0.7-volts across the diode... now I have to be especially careful not to hook up the battery wires backwards!

GAntley has built one or two and has written some instructions over the last few days;  I expect he'll post them (or a link to them) soon.  I also took some pictures as I built one last night, so when I get a chance to clean them up and put them on a server, I'll post some links.

Cheers,
Jon
 

gantley

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
Here is the draft page......

http://www.geocities.com/garyantley/gameca...g_a_game_camera

I do not have the photos on the page yet..   I should have that done by Wednesday.

Note I am running my system on 12 VDC.  Jon is running his on 6 VDC.  I could not get my first two to fire off on 6 VDC.  Lowest was 9 VDC.  

Please let me know when you find something that is unclear or right out wrong.

Thanks a gig.....
 

MCinIL

Inactive
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
1,236
Reaction score
0
Wow, thanks. I now will try one of those also. Thanks for the hard work. MC.
 

Tinhorn

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
3,516
Reaction score
0
Gantley,

6 volt operation  To get the MS20 to trigger a relay off of 6 volts, you have to do this:

1.  use a 5v "Reed" relay (they only draw 18 - 20 ma's)

                        or

2.  if the selected relay draws ~30 ma's, change R28 to 33K
                (like Jon said in his latest post)

                        or

3. or use an Opto-Coupler instead of a relay.  


This (# 3) is probably the best choice BECAUSE


when the batteries get a little weak and the relay gets energized, all that relay current will about kill the battery volts, which kills the PIR electronics, releasing the relay.  Once the relay is de-energized, the battery volts bounces back up (due to practically a No Load condition) which powers up the PIR, which activates the relay, starting the whole vicious cycle all over again, ripping off a whole roll of film

(this is a good indicator that the batteries are weak)

Since an Opto-Coupler don't draw near the current  compared to a relay, the batt's will last a lot longer

Tinhorn
 

Old Scout

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Thanks....gantley and Jon.......for all your knowledge and hard work....I'm attempting to rework a MS-20 which I would have never been able to do without the information that you have provided to this forum.
 

gantley

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
well guys i have verified the procedure and to the best of my knowlege is worked...again.  

http://www.geocities.com/garyantley/  then go to the game cameras.

keep in mind this page will be a living document for several more days.  jon has found ways to mod the WM2 that will cut power consumption and i sure would like to add that to the procedure.  once voltage is standardized, fixed resister values can be used.

dont you just love the internet?  WOW!  Christ Rules!
 

Latest Posts

Advertisement



Top Bottom