Mr.Redneck
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wmidbrook
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I'm by no means an expert. If you can use a mouth diaphram, I'd work on that. I haven't been able to yet.
I found it easiest to use Abe & Son's bugles which are like the Primos calls that come with a diaphram. They were bought out by Lohman. If Lohman's selling the "How to use it" video, you'll have all the techniques you'd ever need to use that bugle. I needed about a month to get my basic location bugle down pat. The grunting, chuckles etc. are all sounds that you can build on after getting the building blocks down.
I found it easiest to use Abe & Son's bugles which are like the Primos calls that come with a diaphram. They were bought out by Lohman. If Lohman's selling the "How to use it" video, you'll have all the techniques you'd ever need to use that bugle. I needed about a month to get my basic location bugle down pat. The grunting, chuckles etc. are all sounds that you can build on after getting the building blocks down.
Oregon Archer
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ive owned 3 different types of bugles over the years. i started out with a Berry Thunder bugle at first. it did the job but lacked any real versatility in sounds. second bugle was a Primos Terminator. very easy to use. the blue reeds are a sinch to replace even in the heat of the moment. third was an Abe&Sons. this bugle definately had the best sound, just edging out the Primos. ease of use was also a plus. but it has a big down side in that if you do happen to break a piece of latex on it you just cant simply throw a new one on and keep going like you can with the Primos. you have to stretch it just right then try and slip the rubber bands back around it just right. and if you didnt do it just right it sounds like crap. just to much of a pain in the butt. so now i use the Primos mouth piece with the blue reeds and i use the grunt tube from my Abe&Sons in combination with each other. I get a better tone with that grunt tube but still have the ease of use of the Primos mouthpiece.
wmidbrook
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Oregon Archer's right...I think the A&S bugles sound pretty darned realistic and better than the Primos.
But, there are ways around the problem he describes--you can buy the extra mouth pieces, tune them before you hit the field (takes me 5 minutes now, but about an hour the first few times to get it to sound right and that was with the video walking me through the process!).
If the latex breaks, drop in another mouthpiece (only a 30 second operation). A new latex over the mouthpiece should last at least a week or two of heavy use. I think I've gotten up to 3 months worth of practice time in with one before it was getting harder to use and starting to not sound right (usually happens before it tears).
But, there are ways around the problem he describes--you can buy the extra mouth pieces, tune them before you hit the field (takes me 5 minutes now, but about an hour the first few times to get it to sound right and that was with the video walking me through the process!).
If the latex breaks, drop in another mouthpiece (only a 30 second operation). A new latex over the mouthpiece should last at least a week or two of heavy use. I think I've gotten up to 3 months worth of practice time in with one before it was getting harder to use and starting to not sound right (usually happens before it tears).
Mr.Redneck
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Thanks for the advice guys, I was leaning towards Primos because of the easily replaceable diaphragms. Any spec. one better or worse???
wmidbrook
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Well, primos is probably the way to go--there's probably more supporting materials for blowing it correctly. I don't think Lohman is selling the instructional videos and tapes (at least on their website) which would be crucial to use the A&S bugle to its fullest potential.
The instructional video was phenomenal that Abe Meline produced. The sounds he could produce with that thing were identical to bugles from a 380" elk harvested in AZ I've got on video using a technique called "Lip Bawling". And, that lip bawling does piss off herd bulls at the right time of the season big time.
OregonArcher>>>great idea on using the NES tube and the Primos mouthpiece.
The instructional video was phenomenal that Abe Meline produced. The sounds he could produce with that thing were identical to bugles from a 380" elk harvested in AZ I've got on video using a technique called "Lip Bawling". And, that lip bawling does piss off herd bulls at the right time of the season big time.
OregonArcher>>>great idea on using the NES tube and the Primos mouthpiece.
Oregon Archer
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the Abe&Sons tube resonates much better than the Primos tube giving it a much better sounds with that mouth piece. it took a little "persuasion" to get it in there but it works great.
wmidbrook
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Also, once you get the "location" bugle mastered, it's good to start experimenting with throwing your voice into the bugle too with kind of a gutteral growling sounds ...lighten it up for smaller bull sounds/squeals which is probably what you'll want to sound like in most cases.
It helped me to go back to basics and practice the location bugle with my voice before moving into doing realistic "chuckles" using the voice while inhaling. You can use your voice while exhaling with the location bugle first which is much easier before getting the realistic chuckling sound they make after the high pitch bugle.
If you sound like a bigger bull, odds are most bulls will round up their harem and go the other way unless they are hot and up for a fight.....there are a few good videos out there that get into scenario based calling techniques.... http://www.elknut.com produces such videos. Great guy to BS with on the phone about calling regardless of what your skill levels are....he doesn't like anything but the mouth diaphram wiht the grunt tubes though and doesn't have good things to say about running with the Primos-like bugles. And he's right to a certain extent--it's definately more difficult to do some things that can be done with a mouth diaphram with the A&S or Primos.....
But, I can't complain about the results I've had with my A&S bugle....it definately works.
It helped me to go back to basics and practice the location bugle with my voice before moving into doing realistic "chuckles" using the voice while inhaling. You can use your voice while exhaling with the location bugle first which is much easier before getting the realistic chuckling sound they make after the high pitch bugle.
If you sound like a bigger bull, odds are most bulls will round up their harem and go the other way unless they are hot and up for a fight.....there are a few good videos out there that get into scenario based calling techniques.... http://www.elknut.com produces such videos. Great guy to BS with on the phone about calling regardless of what your skill levels are....he doesn't like anything but the mouth diaphram wiht the grunt tubes though and doesn't have good things to say about running with the Primos-like bugles. And he's right to a certain extent--it's definately more difficult to do some things that can be done with a mouth diaphram with the A&S or Primos.....
But, I can't complain about the results I've had with my A&S bugle....it definately works.
Hoback Hunter
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Redneck,
I use a Primo's spike bugle during rifle season, but if I remember, you bow-hunt... Accordingly, take the time, annoy your wife and neighbors, and learn the mouth/diaphram calls... Primos produces training tapes and the drive to work can be a great place to learn/practice. They are a great, hands-free call if you can master them. But if you're like me, it all sounds like turkey, so the bugle tube is a nice fall-back.
I honestly believe big bulls are more agressive during the early rut, when you'll be drawing your bow... so you could probably do well with Primo's big bugle tube (not sure what it's called)...
I can't speak to the other manufacturers models, but the idea of using your voice to change pitch is a good one, regardless of who makes the call. Practice, practice, practice...
I use a Primo's spike bugle during rifle season, but if I remember, you bow-hunt... Accordingly, take the time, annoy your wife and neighbors, and learn the mouth/diaphram calls... Primos produces training tapes and the drive to work can be a great place to learn/practice. They are a great, hands-free call if you can master them. But if you're like me, it all sounds like turkey, so the bugle tube is a nice fall-back.
I honestly believe big bulls are more agressive during the early rut, when you'll be drawing your bow... so you could probably do well with Primo's big bugle tube (not sure what it's called)...
I can't speak to the other manufacturers models, but the idea of using your voice to change pitch is a good one, regardless of who makes the call. Practice, practice, practice...
I've had pretty consistent luck with a Carlton's. Anymore, there are just too many gadget freaks hunting in Colorado. I prefer just to cow call or use a single reed diaphram with a grunt tube to sound like a smaller bull and follow up with a series of cow calls, using either a diaphram or a Sceery Ace-1 or special cow. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been fairly successful when using this set up. Good luck.....
ElkChaser
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Hey guys,
Thanks for all of the advice, I am practicing the mouth calls, but they sound like hell, any mouth calls that are easier to use. I got a Primos Pack Bugle, it sounds a little rough, but I am working on it.
Wmid,
Thanks for the link, that should help me greatly in practicing. I have already sat here at the computer and listened to them for about 5minutes. The biggest worry I have is not being able to use the calls well, so that site will really help.
Hoback,
Get you that bow, and I'll be out to see you in '07, wife wants to have another baby in '06, so that'll give you a couple years so save and get the bow and have it ready to go.
Again, thanks for all the good advice, I am a member of 4 different hunting forums, but Jesse's by far has the best all around group of guys.
Thanks for all of the advice, I am practicing the mouth calls, but they sound like hell, any mouth calls that are easier to use. I got a Primos Pack Bugle, it sounds a little rough, but I am working on it.
Wmid,
Thanks for the link, that should help me greatly in practicing. I have already sat here at the computer and listened to them for about 5minutes. The biggest worry I have is not being able to use the calls well, so that site will really help.
Hoback,
Get you that bow, and I'll be out to see you in '07, wife wants to have another baby in '06, so that'll give you a couple years so save and get the bow and have it ready to go.
Again, thanks for all the good advice, I am a member of 4 different hunting forums, but Jesse's by far has the best all around group of guys.
