which sensor

d91

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I have resolved to change all my cams to the MS-20 sensor. Is anyone else running both and If so, do you also seem to be getting better results from the MS-20? May all be in my head.
 

SWAMPFOOT

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D91
I WAS USING BOTH AT FIRST BUT I HAVE GONE TO USING ONLY THE MS20.  I THINK IT DOES BETTER JUST MY OPINION. ONCE I GOT RID OF THE LARGE BATTERY PROBLEM BY WIRING THREE 9VOLTS IN PARALLELL I STARTED USING THE MS20 STRICTLY.   THE ONLY PLUS I SAW W/RS 49-425 WAS ONE 9VOLT AND IT DIDNT REQUIRE AS MUCH BATTERY AS THE MS 20.  BUT I CAN EASILY FIT 3-9VOLTS IN MY SMALL HOUSINGS AND IVE BEEN LEAVING THEM FOR 3-4 WEEKS AT ATIME NO PROBLEMS.  AND $8.94 COMPARED TO $24.95 FOR ONE SENSOR  JUST MY TWO CENTS.
 

caveman

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Swampfoot (or anyone)You say you get 3-4 wks out of 3-9v's.are they alk.or lith.?
On Jesse's page he said you would only get 4-5 days or 10 pics.with 2-9v's.
Will adding one more increase the life that much?
The wallmart near me claranced out all th ms20's,$5.50 ea.and they say they're not replacing them with the Mainstay.So I may end up going to the R.S. pir.I'm just leary after reading about the relays going bad.
 

SWAMPFOOT

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CAVEMAN
IVE BEEN LEAVING MINE IN WOODS 3-4 WEEKS NO PROBLEMS USUALLY ALL PICS ARE TAKEN WHEN I GET IT OUT. I JUST USE ALKALINES.  SOMEONE A WHILE BACK DID THE FORMULA AND CALCULATED THAT THE 3 9VOLTSW/NORMAL DRAINAGE, TEMPS ETC WOULD OR SHOULD LAST APPROX 47 DAYS  IF I CAN FIND IT ,KNOW I PRINTED SAME OUT I WILL POST IT OR YOU..
 

Richard Webb

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Caveman-

The Radio Shack sensor is a little pricey, but it will pay for its self with good battery life.  I just wired one up, and found that the 2 maim problems were getting two strips of the fresnal lens aligned & not using the speaker wires for something other than the walk light.  It's very tempting to use the two speaker wire that are just hanging loose there, and a lot more difficult to solder a jumper to pin #2.  But, both the Reed Relay & Opto Coupler specs say not to use AC current, and the speaker is AC.  If you like the MS20 your Wal*Mart manager can special order it for you.  There is usually a computer at the place in front of the store where people return stuff.
 

Richard Webb

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Tinhorn & MS-20 users,

I may have found a way to extend battery life with the MS-20?  I found the following on the Internet:

Copied Text follows:

Opening the case, you will find a single PC board about 2" square. It includes the PIR (Pyroelectric Infra Red) sensor, a CdS photocell, a relay, miscellaneous small components, and an industry-standard LM324 quad op-amp. The circuit is intended to be connected directly to the 115 VAC line, so it has some simple circuitry to convert the high-voltage AC down to low-voltage DC. The circuit needs two DC voltages: 24 volts to operate the relay and some of the electronics, and about 5 volts for the remainder. If the relay is eliminated from the circuit, it turns out that the remainder will work just fine on 5 volts only.

I made the following changes:

Remove the relay and diode D1 (D1 is wired across the relay's coil, to protect the driver transistor from back-EMF spikes).

Remove the red and black power wires that come from the lamp sockets.
You may want to keep the white wire in place (see below).

The Ground connection can be made using the white wire (you may want to replace it with a lighter-gauge wire).

The +5 volt power input is through the spot that was formerly the cathode (banded end) of diode D1. The modified circuit uses only about 2 mA at 5 volts.

Connect a jumper between the Emitter and Collector terminals of transistor Q1. There are "E", "C", and "B" markings on the PC board - use the "E" and "C". I just soldered a small wire on the bottom of the PC board (the E and C pads are adjacent to each other). In the circuit, Q1 is a voltage regulator that reduces the 24 VDC down to about 5 volts. It is necessary to bypass this regulator, since with a 5 volt input, the regulator doesn't leave enough for the sensor to work reliably.

Identify the two holes that were formally used by the relay's coil. These holes are parallel to the holes formerly used by D1. Install a 10K resistor in place of the relay coil. This resistor is now the pull-up for the output transistor Q4.

The output signal is available at the spot that was formerly the anode of D1.

The output is active-low, so can be easily connected to a microcontroller's interrupt line. Since the output will stay low for about 4 seconds, you might want to connect it to an edge-sensitive input, rather than a level-sensitive input. Or, by further modifying the circuit, it should be possible to reduce the 4 second delay to a shorter interval. The PIR sensor is in a round transistor-style case, so it's field of view can be reduced by mounting a tubular "blinder" on it. For a wider field of view, use the plastic Fresnel lens that is part of the original plastic case.

I've only just begun experimenting with the modified sensor, but it will clearly be a cheap and simple way to add another type of sensing to my current robot project.

ooops, forgot to post the URL:

Also, in standby the RS 49-425 uses 0.16 mA Vs the above modified MS-20's 2 mA, so for every one 9 Volt battery that the 49-425 uses, the above MS-20 will use 12-1/2 9 Volt batteries.  Jesse mentions something like 75 on his webpage.

Here is the URL:

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/nov98/pirhack.html


(Edited by Richard Webb at 12:43 pm on June 17, 2001)
 

Tinhorn

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Richard Webb

Thanx for the Info on the MS20 Mods.  I had found this months ago (I think the "Text" info is on Jesse's site somewhere) and it helped me make the final Mods I make to the MS20 on my Cam Project.  I even E-mailed the guy to see if he had anything further but he said no.

Here is a comparison on Current Draw and Battery Life based on using the 9v battery vs the 6v lantern battery:

Formula:
Hours of Life = Battery Ampacity / Current Draw

RS PIR:
Current Draw = .16ma's
9 volt battery Ampacity = 590 ma's
Battery Cost = $3

Battery Life = .16ma / 590ma = 22 weeks
Cost per Week = $3 / 22wks = 13.6 Cents

MS20
Current Draw = 2ma's (actually, I measured 1.34ma's using a 6v battery)
6v Lantern Battery Ampacity = 11,500 MA's
Battery Cost = $7

Battery Life = 2ma's / 11,500ma = 34 weeks
Cost per Week = $7 / 34wks = 20.6 Cents

Cost of 1 years worth of batterys:
6v Lantern:  52 wks X 20.6 Cents = $10.71
9v transistor 52 wks X 13.6 Cents = $ 7.07

In one year you save $ 3.64 on Battery's

Your payback from battery money saved by using the RS PIR:

RS PIR = $29     MS20 =  $9     $29 - 9 = $20

$20 / 3.64 = 5.5 years
It will take 5.5 years before you start saving money on battery's when taking PIR cost into account  

 Tinhorn  

(Edited by Tinhorn at 1:16 am on June 19, 2001)
 

gizz

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geez tinhorn, maybe we should move this over to the lunatics thread
I'd be interested in the text for the power saving mods to the MS20. I don't remember seeing them on Jesse's pages but I'll go look again.
gizz
 

ToddP

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Tinhorn,  you don't by chance live in California??  Spending alot of time calculating how long you can run your air conditioner??

ToddP
 

Tinhorn

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Take a look at the "Time" of that Post and u'll see that I was PUNCH DRUNK when figuring those calcs  

One thing I should NOTE (seriously) is that this part did not work for me:

<QUOTE>
Connect a jumper between the Emitter and Collector terminals of transistor Q1. There are "E", "C", and "B" markings on the PC board - use the "E" and "C". I just soldered a small wire on the bottom of the PC board (the E and C pads are adjacent to each other).
<End Quote>

I Reverse Engineered the MS20 and drew a schematic and I don't know why it won't work this way, it looks to me like it should...

**************************

Uh-Oh Todd!

I am a hobbiest Computer Programmer and I have written a program to compare different Home Heating Fuels......You enter the Cost and it breaks down the BTU's etc and comes up with a COST per Million BTU's of each fuel, sort of like cost per oz of peanut butter in a store, it does this by !#$FJjjjjjjjfa      ja nd and  the e..aq...............................

and my teacher said   blah  did-dah  blah blah....!@#%@%^.....@$%...ooooooooooooo
 

Richard Webb

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Hi Tinhorn,

It amazes me how my air conditioner had a tag stating its yearly operating cost was $70, and PG&E is now bankrupt.
 

Archilochus

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Hi Tinhorn,
Math like that makes me want to go get my icepack and lie down on the couch for a while ;)

But....to make a fair comparison, shouldn't you figure the cost per year with both units using the same type batteries?

Archilochus
 

Richard Webb

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Hi Archy,

And, not to mention the fact that the RS 49-425 can double as a security alarm. A trail Cam needs a drain hole in the bottom anyway, so a phone jack in the bottom of the case will serve that function plus the original speaker can be plugged in when you want to use it for security.  i.e., we had cougars in camp every night last winter while camping along the Colorado River.    
 

Tinhorn

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Regarding Battery Life and Cost:

Wasn't trying to make one look better than the other really, just wanted to show the MS20 wasn't all that bad compared to the RS PIR & 9v battery but we do almost "have" to use a 6v lantern battery due to the current draw of the MS20.  (4 AA's in series (6v) would last about 6 weeks BTW)

These calcs show the only draw back to this battery is the physical size and weight of the battery, not cost....

Just for grins, a current draw of .16 ma's with the 6v battery turns out to be  99.8 months, well past the shelf life of alkalines of 4 years (wonder if the RS would run on 6v's?)

and 9v batt at 2ma's is 2 weeks of running time

(Yes, I wrote a Battery Life Program to do the math  

Oh, Archy:  someone told me the Red Hummingbird mix Wal-Mart sells gives the birds "Throat Cancer" ever hear of this?  My wife went to Suger Water now because of this rumor.....

Tinhorn
 

Archilochus

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Hi Tinhorn,
Sounds like what you heard might be a combination of different information (ever play "telephone" when you were a kid??) - Unless there's some new research ......
____________
Fungal throat / crop infections in hummingbirds can be caused by using honey or molasses mixtures in your hummingbird feeders (maybe extended throat infections could lead to  throat cancer??)  Also....not cleaning the feeders every 2-3 days can lead to mold buildup inside the feeder - which could also lead to a throat infection in the hummingbirds.
_____________
The types and quantities of dyes and preservatives used in commercial mixes are unregulated by the FDA since they're not for human consumption.  These dyes and preservatives are used in relatively massive amounts  compared to amounts used in human food.  In a study several years back by Cornell Lab. of Ornithology a strong link was found between the use of commercial hummingbird foods and liver cancer.  This study could state no definitive conclusion showing a direct link between the commercial mixes and liver cancer in hummingbirds.  The commercial mix manufacturers were quick to pick up on this lack of irrefutable results, and started stating their products were “completely safe” for hummingbirds.
______________
Given their very high metabolism and the huge quantity of food they consume, it seems best not to risk feeding the hummingbirds any - even potentially - carcinogenic food.  It’s best to stay with refined white sugar using the following recipe:

4 parts water to 1 part sugar (example: 1 cup water to 1/4 cup sugar)
Bring water to boiling - stir in sugar
Boil sugar / water mixture for  1 minute
Let cool and serve
Refrigerate or freeze unused mixture - but try to use it within a week

Maybe you could write up a program to do long-term cost analysis between the commercial mixes and home-brewed hummingbird food  Then you could post your results to the various bird-oriented discussion forums..... maybe save a few hummers.

The colorful bits often found on hummingbird feeders are more than sufficient to attract the attention of hummingbirds.  I've made hummingbird feeders in ceramic, stained glass,  and copper that have no red parts at all and the hummers still find them.

Can you tell that I like hummingbirds??

Just to keep it on topic... I did get some bluurrrry pictures of hummingbirds with an automatic camera once using a feeder as a "bait station"

Archilochus
 

Tinhorn

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Dr. Archy

Thanx for the rundown on Hummers, I sent your reply to my wife at work to pass around.  I plan on dividing your Dr. Fee among them  :)

I too, tried to use Old Ponderous to take their pix's last year.  they were so quick, when the pix's were developed, only the feeder was visible.....they must have tremondous reaction time

I fixed up an Owl PF and tried again a few weeks ago,  not developed the film yet to see how it did.

I rigged up an extension cord and push-button to trip the Owl PF this time.....The cam min focus range is 30" or so, may be too far for a 2 oz bird

Tinhorn
 

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