2008 archery pig hunts at Lake Sonoma. Public input needed!!&#

[Rangerjoel]

Ok Folks,
The future of bow hunting at Lake Sonoma is up for debate. Below are a set of e-mails that my manager and I have been exchanging over the past few days. As you know, I have been strongly hinting that future hunts may be eliminated due to the problems that we have had. This forum notification has been done so that there are no surprises if that turns out to be the case. However, it looks like we may be holding some kind public forum to discuss this. If you are interested in commenting, but will be unable to appear at a scheduled forum, please leave a comment here as a public record that I can take to the meeting. Also, please note that apparently all of the hunting data that I have been storing over that past three years is now missing, so if you hunted our property and would like to share your previous thoughts, this is the time and place to do it.

(e-mail from Park Manager to ranger staff below)

Team,
Joel presents some excellent information and a good synopsis and list of arguments. However, he did not provide his recommendation and perhaps he was waiting for the meeting to do so. I believe we should meet and include the DFG biologist that is overseeing the program…Joel please contact the DFG Biologist and set up a meeting date/time…perhaps a Monday afternoon would work best.
Late yesterday afternoon I received a call from a pig hunter from the SF area, who was under the impression that we were cancelling future hunts. He was strongly suggesting a public forum (meeting) be presented so the public can have a chance to voice their concerns (and so that we could provide information as to the problems we have been encountering). I told him we have not decided to cancel future hunts, that park mgt. was going to meet (perhaps with DFG) to discuss whether to hold future hunts and in what format (I hinted that if they were held we may change the format), and that the decision would primarily be based on recommendations from park staff and DFG. I believe a forum and/or a synopsis of the program, including most of the information below (which would be mailed to every registered hunter from last two years), would help communication…and at least keep the hunters informed. The forum could be held at the Visitor Center in Sept or Oct.
Lastly, I suspect that the hunters may become organized and start to inundate us with phone calls….if you receive any, simply state no decision has been made and that they should put their concerns in writing and that we will use the information to assist us in making future decisions on hunts. I will do the same if I receive any calls.

Thanks,
Park/Operations Manager
Lake Sonoma/Warm Springs Dam


_____________________________________________

Joel
Why don't we select a date to meet and discuss these issues? Let me know what dates are best for you. Thanks

_____________________________________________
From: Miller, Joel D SPN
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: 2007-2008 pig hunts?

(email from me to the head ranger and my park manager)

Hey guys,
I've been getting phone calls from hunters all summer long asking if we were going to continue the pig hunts in the park. Can we get together to decide if we area going to do this or not?

Below are some of my thoughts on the issue.

The overall intended purpose of the hunts is to reduce the pig population in the area and corresponding damage caused by them. From what I have seen this past fall and winter, the population is down. Whether this is attributable to our hunting program is debatable and may just be a natural fluctuation in the population.

All of my hunting information that was stored is now missing so I can not provide any hard numbers, but on average I would say that between 150 and 300 hunters regularly participate in the hunts each month. The success rate is normally around 3% per month.

From my observations of the park land, I believe that the hunting program has not been successful in its intended goal of reducing damage done to the parks vegetation. Instead, the pigs seem to move to areas where they are under less pressure and continue to root up hillsides. I'm not sure how long hunting would need to continue before any noticeable change could be seen.

The USDA will trap and kill pigs in the park at no charge to the Corps. Trapping is more effective but is limited to areas where John can access by road.

We have received two phone reports of hunters threatening other visitors. (I do not consider these credible because the reporting party did not identify themselves and also claimed to have been threatened while hiking in an area where we have no trails to hike on!)

Last season, we had three pig carcasses left in the liberty glen campground by hunters.

We have received complaints on hunter trespass over the last two hunting seasons from four adjacent land owners. I investigated one report of hunter trespass and it is legitimate. Working with the DFG Game Warden and the land owner, we were able to determine who the hunter was who has been going onto private property above homestead primitive campground. DFG has arrested and prosecuted this individual before but was unable to successfully argue their case in court and was forced to return his hunting equipment. We will continue to have problems with the violator whether our hunt program continues or not. He was overheard in Oakland bragging about how he regularly hunted deer in our park out of season.

I do not think it is possible to monitor hunter’s activities on the park boundary nor should it be our responsibility to enforce our neighbor’s private property rights. The size of our project is too large and it is impossible for the ranger staff to ensuring that hunters remain on our property. Our boundaries are clearly marked including the areas where we have had complaints from adjacent land owners, so the problem is not one of signage.

I have also received reports from registered pig hunters of rifle hunters coming over from adjacent property. Hunter trespass seems to go both ways in these areas and I have recovered rifle shell casings in the area. (Again whether these were from illegal hunting or a DFG monitored rifle hunt cannot be determined.)

OK, below are some of the best arguments I can come up with for continuing the hunting program.

Our project is the only park in the state that has an exclusive "bow hunting only" season for wild boar.
Hunters are now coming from as far away as Nevada and Colorado to take part in these hunts.
They do put pressure on the pig population in areas where it would be difficult or imposable to trap them.
They bring up to 300 additional visitors into the park and surrounding community during our off season.
To date, no one has been seriously injured as a result of these hunts.
They can be used as an additional for of revenue if desired.

Possible options:
1) Cancel the open hunts
2) Continue the hunts
3) Modify the hunts (limit number of hunter and abolish self registration)
4) Have DFG take over the pig hunts

Finally, what action will be in the public's interest and our agency goals?
Joel

 

[Kentuck]

Ranger Joel,

First of all, Thank-you for all that you have done to help the bowhunters of this state with access to an excellent opportunity to hunt wild pigs. Especially given the problems you had to deal with this past season.

I did not hunt there this past season but did the previous two. I have seen pigs on every trip, at least one of my party has had shot opportunities on most of those hunts and one buddy did kill one in 2005. I would sorely miss having this opportunity that has been afforded to us and sincerely hope that the COE would continue to provide us access for these hunts.

Unfortunately there are bad apples in every barrel but with due diligence on the rest of us to police ourselves I would hope we would be able to keep things in check. There enough of us on this forum and others that putting the word out that hunters are being watched and violations reported would hopefully reign in some of the bad apples. Thining of the pig carcasses left in Liberty Glenn, do you know if you had kill reports on those pigs. There seemed to be some suspicions last season that some party or parties from the out-lying area may have been trying to sabotage these hunts and sometimes I wonder if someone may have brought those carcasses from somewhere else and dumped them. Just a theory.

I again, would strongly ask that the archery pig hunts be continued as they have been in the recent past.

Thanks,
Kentuck

 

[Rick]

Thank you for the opportunity to express ourselves on this. While I have never hunted Lake Sonoma, I would hate to see more land become unavailable to hunting. There simply is not enough public land available in California for hunting that actually has a huntable population of wild pigs. Hunters are, after all, a part of the population and the tax-paying public, too.

I would support better regulation of the hunters and even a reasonable fee to make the program self-sustaining, if neccessary.

Again, thank you.

 

[Lurediver]

One comment,

Ranger Joel, I didn't think the little anti-bow hunter display at the check-in center was necessary or needed last year. Hunters already suffer enough in California as it is and it puts a bad taste in people's minds who are the fence about us.

 

[ducslayer]

I hunted lake Sonoma last year for the first time,It was a great opertunity I would like to have again.Please do not let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone ........Jim McMullen

 

[PIGIG]

First I would like to thank the COE for the opportunity you have given us to hunt. I have hunted there every year and with some success. But there are a few issues that need to be cleared up.

1. Last season, we had three pig carcasses left in the liberty glen campground by hunters.

Unless you have proof that hunters did leave carcasses please do not blame the hunters. What if you said the neighbors left them how many neighbors would be calling you?

2. Our boundaries are clearly marked including the areas where we have had complaints from adjacent land owners, so the problem is not one of signage.

I have walked from the boat ramp all the way to the hot springs arm and there are hardly any signs that state boundaries. I have taken the time to map the GPS coordinates where I hunt just to stay on COE land. i ahve also meet a few land owners that were very cool about me recivering my pig from thier land if it went onto thier land.

3. I have also received reports from registered pig hunters of rifle hunters coming over from adjacent property. Hunter trespass seems to go both ways in these areas and I have recovered rifle shell casings in the area. (Again whether these were from illegal hunting or a DFG monitored rifle hunt cannot be determined.)

I have been personally harassed in the Liberty Glen camp ground by locals and while out hunting running into rifle hunters more that once.

We can turn this whole thing into a pissing match but what good would that do! A public forum is the best way to get everyone involved and the adjacent land owners should also attend and meet the hunters that show up. The bad apples will not be there because they leave the work up to those that care.

I am sure the boundaries could be marked better and I bet it would not be hard to get us hunters up there to help if not do the whole thing. And I think the visitor’s center will be too small for this event you might want to have it out side

 

[2rocky]

Many Thanks to the Corps of Engineers for allowing us to take an active role in managing the impact of the Feral hogs at the Lake Sonoma property. I have had the privilige to participate in the DFG draw Archery Deer Hunt in 2005 and I witnessed the erosion caused from feral pig rooting. It is my opinion that having an archery hunt on the Lake Sonoma property serves the public interest in ensuring that the park does not become a "Safe Haven" for feral pigs from the adjacent properties.

I regards to the conduct of people, I have always been impressed with the people hunting at the park. They have all been courteous and helpful. It is my sincere hope that you will continue to allow public hunting access.

 

[Hoyt34]

I too want to express my Thanks to all that have made these hunts available to us. I shot my first blacktail and my first pig on Lake Sonoma hunts. They will be some of the most remembered hunts ever.
With the low percent of sucess (3% ? ), I truely belive that the sucess of pig removal, relocation is a sucess. There have been several times where we go there and there is no fresh sign of hogs. So by us hunting Lake Sonoma we are in a sence temporairily scaring (removing) them off the property. Other times while on the A-25 hunts we have seen tons of hogs. But we cannot shoot them while deer hunting. Pig hunting on Lake Sonoma is a very handy hunt for most of us on a limited time available for hunting. We can on a spur of a moment go and self check in and have a fun and most of all FREE hunt. I would like to see these hunts continue. I remember when there was a draw for both the NW and SE sides of the lake for hunts. Shotgun, rifle and bow. I understand that the man power it takes to have these hunts was an issue, but with the self check in, that solved lots of man power. I would just hate to see these hunts not held anymore. My son would love to go hunt hogs there when he is of age. It is a place where you can hunt hog, go fishing and take photos of some great deer. all in one day.
In regards to some of the issues posted previously. I too have seen neighboring property owners, hunters come onto the Lake Sonoma land with wired dogs looking for pigs. We were hunting one day and taking abreak and here comes two dogs with wired collars come over to us and was looking for some lunch hand outs. We then saw the dog owners on a ridge across from us on a quad with a big UHF/VHF antenna, yelling for them. I do also know that by us hunting the Lake Sonoma land we can push those pigs off of the land and over to the neighboring land owners and help their costly pig hunts. I do think it is a win win situation between hunters, COE, Neighboring land owers/hunters.
Again thanks to those responsible to make these hunt available for us and please keep these hunts in our future.

Paul Parsons
Sacramento

 

[tsmnbwhntr]

Ranger Joel-

It has been a few years since I was able to hunt Lake Sonoma (medical probs), but I am finally able to once again, and was surprised to see all that has been going on. I'd like to offer a few opinions:

1. I think the open forum idea is good, so long as you have all parties there, DFG, Army Corps., adjacent land owners, and of course, the hunters.

2. Stateing that the USDA will trap the pigs for "free" is laughable, WHATEVER the government does is paid for by ALL of us! With the hunter success rate so low, it might be worthwhile for the Corps to use this as an additional tool to cull the pig numbers in the park.

3. In areas where the boundaries of the park are not as clearly marked as they should be, EVERY effort to correct this should be done. If a hunter shoots a pig on park property, and it runs onto private property,procedures can be set up with the land owners to allow recovery of the pig without incoviencining the landowner.

4. Was the incident of the 3 carcasses left in the campground PROVEN to be legitimate bowhunters hunting in the park? With hunter success being so low, I find this suspicious at best (I'm a retired cop), were the carcasses tested to see if they even CAME from park property? That guy from Oakland that was not convicted IS NOT A HUNTER, merely a criminal. To lump him in with the rest of us who follow the rules & regs is a disservice... The Corps and you need to get together with the landowners around the park for the problem of guns being brought onto park property and the ILLEGAL taking of pigs from park property. I have been teaching people how to hunt with the bow properly & legally for over 25 years, and I think there are probably fewer "bad apples" legitimately hunting in the park than you think you might have... Impossible, no. Just fewer.


If there is anything I can do to help you or the Corps, please feel free to contact me, I am at your service. Thank you for your time & trouble!

 

[CD3]

I have hunted both during the DFG hunts and during the archery only hunts in the last two years. I hunted the lake twice during the DFG hunts both shotgun and we never saw a pig. We saw lots of rooting but no pigs were taken by myself my friend or any other hunter during these hunts. I have hunted the lake during the archery only hunts at least 3 times a month along with several friends, some who have come from Nevada and one from Idaho ( did not hunt ). We have taken between all 6 of us a total 12 hogs in the two years the archery hunts have been going on. We too have seen hunters ( rifle ) trespassing from the other side of the fence. I have found fresh empty 270cal casings around the yorty creek area and on the fence line. Every time I have hunted the lake we have seen other hunters and people fishing and just enjoying the lake. On one hunt my friend shot a hog that was about 280 pounds we were having a hard time getting the hog into the boat because of the steep area of the lake shore, when two guys fishing with the sons stopped and helped us, it took us about 10 more min to get the hog into the boat. This hunt is something that we who cant afford to hunt the private ranch hunts have looked foward to for the last two years. I hope the hunts stay open for all of us.

 

[hatchet1]

 

[Rangerjoel]

Thanks for the comments so far and make sure to tell your friends that we have this forum going on right now and post comments. I will be speaking with DFG this week to see about setting up the public forum for this.
Joel

 

[B-RAD]

Thanks for all of your work on this Ranger Joel. I have enjoyed archery hunting at the lake very much and would hate to see it go away. I think it will benefit us all to unite and work out the problems that have arrised.

 

[One Track]

By eliminating archery hog hunting, you would be eliminating your volunteer police force. Bowhunters are the most ethical hunters in the entire hunting world. A bowhunter usually has graduated from rifle hunting, looking for more of a challenge and extending his time up close and personal with wild game. Killing animals is not the common objective of a bowhunter. Time in the field and the challenge of the hunt is what makes us tick. It takes discipline to be a bowhunter. Practice is on-going. To be successful, ethical shots are a must. In my opinion, bowhunters are the cream of the crop. No offense to rifle hunters. I'm a rifle hunter as well. Bowhunters should have access to a phone number where a security person can be contacted immediately. I don't think bowhunters should approach or try to arrest or subdue any tresspassers. Reporting tresspassing cases would be helpful enough in helping to maintain quality management of the area.

Also, what are the chances that bowhunters took three hogs in one weekend?

Thanks for the ear!

 

[bodega]

Joel:

Please post information on the public meeting on this forum once you have a date and time set. I would like to speak in person.

Thanks.
Bodega

 

[NCahuntinfool]

I hunted Lake Sonoma for the first time last year with a friend of mine. We had a great time even though we didnt see anything. I dont know much about any of the problems that has happened there but my only suggestion would be to have some better maps available for the hunting areas. Not knowing the area it was hard to find areas that we were sure we could hunt. We kept checking our map and we talked with some other hunters there to find out where we could hunt.

 

[Rangerjoel]

Ok, when I get something set up, I’ll post the dates here. As it stands right now, our local DFG biologist who has been running the deer and turkey hunts just retired and I’m in the process of trying to set up a meeting date with the guy who is taking over. If you think getting me on the phone is tough, you should try one of these guys!
I’ll keep you posted.

 

[MikenSoCo]

Dear Joel,
Firstly, thanks for all you do for the public land hog hunter. As stated in Bob Robb's book, there is virtually nowhere to hunt hogs with any real sucess in the entire state. Secondly, as a Sonoma County resident who has hunted Lake Sonoma since the beginning of the "post card application" days, if feel my opinion carries some weight ( shut up guys!) I am now blessed with a private parcel to hunt, I don't hunt the lake any longer. However, to take this opportunity from the bowhunting public because of a few bad experiences would be a travesty. I don't recall any problems in the days of the post card apps. We all were held accountable. DFG was onsite, and you had to check in as well as check out. I suggest charging a small/moderate fee to rid yourselves of the riff raff, similar to a cover charge at a night club to discourage thugs looking for trouble. Ask for CDL #'s, poachers and trespassers hate that. Set up a hotline with instant response, it's not that tough.... Require a day of volunteer work for a day of hunting, think of the possibilties!
Lastly, I've never heard anyone state the fact that the hogs do much more damage to the water shed which protects the troubled SALMON/STEELHEAD of the region than many other culprits. To say the bowhunters don't help much because of the low harvest #'s is inaccurate. Simply pressuring the hogs and forcing them to move around relieves concentrated damage to the water shed. I've seen with my own eyes over the years. Bowhunters are good people. Thank You.

 

[oneshothunter]

well said mike joel I to have hunted off and on for some time <no pigs dead to date ><seen lots> and all the hunters at loggers camp have been the best the last trip we met a hunter and his son .. we took them to a spot we had fun met some nice people .. is it hunters that leave hog skins and heads behind ?or a land owner that charges hunter to hunt hogs thats trying to get us guys and gals that love the chance at a real fair chase hunt .. so the greedy land owners can keep all the hogs for themselfs and make money off of them ???? I took 8 new hunters to the lake this past yr.. and we have 8 new bow hunters lol I would hope the funds the park brings in and the campers that vist would make the suits say lets keep the deal going I like the hot line mike was talkin about .. we kinda did are own deal last yr. we got 2 hunter that where over a fence we asked them whats up and got the cold shoulder we told them we where going to turn them in we had no cell service .. butwe fallowed them to there boat and took the boat number down and we turned them in the next 3 time there we never seen the boat or hunters again anyway PLEASE DONT TAKE THE REAL LAST TRUE FREE FAIR CHASE HUNTER AWAY FROM THE HUNTER THAT LOVE TO HUNT AND THE LAND WE HUNT ON thanks joel keep working hard for us bowhunters

 

[CD3]

Ranger Joel,

Anything new about the hunts?