Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that I think the .270 is too light for elk. It just seems to be the level at wich people start do debate the effectiveness of a particular caliber for a particular animal. Actually, when my remington 760 .308 was stolen many years ago, I did not have the money to buy a new rifle. I had 3 or 4 years to study the different calibers and decide what caliber and rifle i would buy once I had the money to replace my old one. I tend to be pretty recoil shy, but wanted a caliber that would be good for the 95%of the time when i am whitetail hunting and would also be adequate for elk if I ever get a chance to do that. I ended up with a .270 myself and love it. Usually, the .270 is not clobbered too much in the elk debate. 25-06, .260 etc is where the tempers really get flarin'.
- Thread starter Herb D
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My two cents are that for a guy who knows what he's doing, a .243 is fine because he'll know whether he can pull the trigger on a given shot. A well-placed standing broadside shot out to 200 or so yards with the right bullet will drop any hog. On the other hand, a big hog only 75 yards away quartering off at a slow walk is a much tougher shot due to the good marksmanship and additional penetration needed to get into the vitals. There is no room for marginal shooting with a .243. An '06 on the other hand carries a bit of excess of energy/penetration for insurance. You get the idea.
In light of the fact that your hunting partner does not have his own big game rifle, it seems like it's a pretty safe bet he has not killed much game with a center-fire rifle. If that is the case then I'd say that he is undergunned with a .243. My first choice would be to try and borrow a .270 or better. My second choice would be to let him use the .243 but make him understand the limitations on the type of shot he can take. I'd also let him take a few practice shots with your rifle so that once you get your hog, he'll be comfortable switching guns with you.
Bill
In light of the fact that your hunting partner does not have his own big game rifle, it seems like it's a pretty safe bet he has not killed much game with a center-fire rifle. If that is the case then I'd say that he is undergunned with a .243. My first choice would be to try and borrow a .270 or better. My second choice would be to let him use the .243 but make him understand the limitations on the type of shot he can take. I'd also let him take a few practice shots with your rifle so that once you get your hog, he'll be comfortable switching guns with you.
Bill
My dad raised hogs at our home outside Eureka Ca. He used many ways to dispatch them. The most conservative way I remember was an 8lb sledge between the eyes. No wasted ammo. I know of one fellow who claims to have hunted them with a bayonet!!!!! Succesfully!!!!!!! I have only shot one. A .270 Win./130gr nosler partions seemed like over kill to me. But it was not a 300lb boar. .243 /100 gr /placed shot /dead hog. Al
My family raised hogs when I was a kid. I had to kill plenty of them because they would be sick or injured or we just wanted to buthcher one for the table. I always used a .22 short and put the muzzle against their forehead right between the eyes. They always dropped right there.
My point? a .22 short is plenty for hogs. All you gotta do is get one to lay still long enough for you to walk up to it, Press the muzzle between the eyes and pull the trigger.
If you aren't able to get them to lay still for you, you might want something with a little more punch.
My point? a .22 short is plenty for hogs. All you gotta do is get one to lay still long enough for you to walk up to it, Press the muzzle between the eyes and pull the trigger.
If you aren't able to get them to lay still for you, you might want something with a little more punch.
huntducks
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In this day and age bigger seems to be better( MAGNUM) for most, but to think a 243 is not enought gun for any pig is out in left field, it truely has nothing to do with caliber, but accuracy and bullet performace.
A wounded pig is just that wounded, and it makes no differance if your shooting a 243 or 500NE it's still wounded, shoot it in the gut, leg, hoof, hind with either and it will run and still be wounded.
Last March I shot a 190lb boar at my brother place in OK. 1 shot with a 243 100gr Nosler Partition behind front shoulder on a angle out other shoulder pig staggered a total of 20 yards and fell over dead.
I have mentioned this before on JHP I hunted years ago with a guide in Idaho Ken Smith he had killed at the time something like 20 elk with a 243 and carried nothing else, there is no pig as tuff as a bull elk.
A wounded pig is just that wounded, and it makes no differance if your shooting a 243 or 500NE it's still wounded, shoot it in the gut, leg, hoof, hind with either and it will run and still be wounded.
Last March I shot a 190lb boar at my brother place in OK. 1 shot with a 243 100gr Nosler Partition behind front shoulder on a angle out other shoulder pig staggered a total of 20 yards and fell over dead.
I have mentioned this before on JHP I hunted years ago with a guide in Idaho Ken Smith he had killed at the time something like 20 elk with a 243 and carried nothing else, there is no pig as tuff as a bull elk.
jrifenbark
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If you are going to let your nephew hunt with your .243, then the shot should be kept to around 100 yds (not an original thought). But it is your responsibility to supervise his shot and make sure that it is appropriate.
As to a .270 being enough for elk, I have no experience with a .270 nor elk. But just because more elk have been dropped pursuant to the bark of a .270 doesn't make it more than a marginal caliber for the animal. After all, more game has been taken with a 30-30 and, like Mr. Dangerfield, it gets no respect.
As to a .270 being enough for elk, I have no experience with a .270 nor elk. But just because more elk have been dropped pursuant to the bark of a .270 doesn't make it more than a marginal caliber for the animal. After all, more game has been taken with a 30-30 and, like Mr. Dangerfield, it gets no respect.
My 2 cents, A .243 will take a hog. No doubt about it but, a bad shot and you may be tracking for quite a while. Like I said in another post, I have seen at least a dozen hogs (a couple over 250 lbs) dropped in their tracks with a 22-250. All shot in the head. Although it is not a caliber you want to try to shoot 'em in the boiler with. And as far as no hog being as tough as a bull elk, well..........I saw a 325 pound boar(and I'm talkin WILD hog)take 5 shots, 2 from an .06 and 3 from a .270 with one shot thru the heart and keep on trucking for 200 yards.
boarbuster
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a 243 can and will take hogs. but its not a beginers gun. i have been guiding for 6 years now and have seen hogs shot with lots of calibers. but evry guide i know shoot at least a 7mm mag. my favorite back up gun with clients is a 45 70. it just all depends on the shot taken. take your time get a shot your comfortable with and take it. but stay with a good controlled exspasion bullet.
Size-wise, a hog won't rival a bull elk; there is much more muscular mass to the elk than to the hog. But, I've never seen any bull elk have a 3 inch cartilaginous shield to protect him from another bull elk either. I am undoubtedly biased, but I also have many facts to back up the claim that there's no tougher animal on the NA continent than the feral hog, period.
The "enough gun" question always seems to rear its ugly head. It is an important topic of discussion, but somehow always manages to ruffle some feathers. I am of the opinion that what is in front of the gun is not nearly so important as what is behind it. The seasoned hunter is much more lethal with a "less-than-optimal" caliber than a newbie with something rivaling an elephant gun. You cannot replace experience with caliber, but a larger caliber will help reduce the margin of error. In other words, a poor shot with a 7 mm Mag is more likely to kill than a poor shot with a .243.
I've known houndsmen who have consistently dropped hogs with one shot from a .22 pistol. I've even known of a Boone and Crockett black bear being killed with a .22. Now, just because a .22 CAN be used to kill hogs or bear does not necessarily mean that it SHOULD be relied upon to do so time and time again.
I would evaluate your nephew's experience with firearms in general and your .243 specifically and balance that with your choice of weapons for him.
---RIFLEMAN
The "enough gun" question always seems to rear its ugly head. It is an important topic of discussion, but somehow always manages to ruffle some feathers. I am of the opinion that what is in front of the gun is not nearly so important as what is behind it. The seasoned hunter is much more lethal with a "less-than-optimal" caliber than a newbie with something rivaling an elephant gun. You cannot replace experience with caliber, but a larger caliber will help reduce the margin of error. In other words, a poor shot with a 7 mm Mag is more likely to kill than a poor shot with a .243.
I've known houndsmen who have consistently dropped hogs with one shot from a .22 pistol. I've even known of a Boone and Crockett black bear being killed with a .22. Now, just because a .22 CAN be used to kill hogs or bear does not necessarily mean that it SHOULD be relied upon to do so time and time again.
I would evaluate your nephew's experience with firearms in general and your .243 specifically and balance that with your choice of weapons for him.
---RIFLEMAN
Speckmisser
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Herb D,
Are you still around? This is one of those "energizer" topics that keeps going and going, even though the hunt you were asking about was last month.
At any rate, would love to know what you ended up doing, and how the hunt went. Did you guys get into the pigs? Did your nephew use the .243?
Do tell, do tell! We need some success stories!
Are you still around? This is one of those "energizer" topics that keeps going and going, even though the hunt you were asking about was last month.
At any rate, would love to know what you ended up doing, and how the hunt went. Did you guys get into the pigs? Did your nephew use the .243?
Do tell, do tell! We need some success stories!
Ok. Here's a little more something for the pot. I use a 6mm Rem for my hunting. Haven't bagged anything with it yet, but I feel it should be adequate. I know most of y'all probably know this, but the 6mm Rem is basically a .243 with 20% more case capacity. I shoot 55 gr Nosler ballistic tip handloads. Come out at 3,600 fps, so they are moving pretty good. Energy is 1,580 Ft-Lbs. Now I could load up some 100 gr, but the rifle doesn't group as well. I have an example load I'm looking at here that is 80 gr, 3,470 fps and 2,136 Ft-Lbs.
I think that to use a smaller caliber, you have to be an excellent marksman. Not only that, but shot placement is key. If you gut-shoot a deer with a .22-250, you are going to be tracking for a long, long time. However, a head shot, or neck shot is a quick, clean kill. With a smaller caliber, you have to be able to pass up marginal shots and wait for one that will allow you to place the shot exactly where you want it. Also, with the small, fast calibers, you can't shoot through brush and expect success. You'll need a heavier, slow caliber for that.
Michael
I think that to use a smaller caliber, you have to be an excellent marksman. Not only that, but shot placement is key. If you gut-shoot a deer with a .22-250, you are going to be tracking for a long, long time. However, a head shot, or neck shot is a quick, clean kill. With a smaller caliber, you have to be able to pass up marginal shots and wait for one that will allow you to place the shot exactly where you want it. Also, with the small, fast calibers, you can't shoot through brush and expect success. You'll need a heavier, slow caliber for that.
Michael
Speckmisser
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Welcome to the list, MW.
The "Is .243 enough gun..." thread is pretty well beat to death. It is enough gun, but there are better choices. Your 6mm is a slightly better choice. But I'll say this to your comments.
Please don't use a 55 grain bullet to shoot hogs. I'd even recommend against it for deer. It's just not enough bullet to guarantee penetration, and is most likely to crater on impact, creating a huge flesh wound and very little other damage.
Sure it can kill. A .22 short can kill. But in the field, wild pigs aren't generally standing still in the open like targets at the range, and the "perfect" shot a moment ago can turn marginal in a literal heartbeat. A mature boar is an extraordinarily tough animal, with thick skin and a sheath of heavy cartilage protecting the vitals... practically ruling out any shot but quartering-away if you're using a light bullet. Smaller pigs may go easier, but even they are tough.
I keep hearing all this about a "well-placed shot" and so forth. But I've been hunting big game for the greater part of my life, and I have to say that most shots in the field.. even from superior marksmen... are not as well-placed as the shooter would have liked. There are simply too many variables.
Shooting in the field bears almost no resemblance to shooting from a bench. Forget that 1/2 MOA group you got with a deep breath and a sandbag. It means nothing when your heart is pounding, and the best rest you can hope for is a shaky knee.
I'm sure it may be a little different hunting in Texas where there are lots of pigs and you can shoot over bait or under a feeder, but in CA, I work way too hard to get a shot on a pig to risk having to pass up my shot simply because I didn't have enough sense to use enough gun. And no matter where I hunt, I have too much respect for any animal I hunt to knowingly take such a huge risk of wounding and losing it.
Few and far between are the hunters who are truly willing to make the call to pass if the shot's not ideal. When there's an animal in the sights, most hunters will always leave a little room for luck, and take a chance, even if the situation isn't textbook. I don't know where you fit in that picture, but there's a big difference between taking that chance with an undersized round, and taking the chance with something that leaves room for error.
I don't know you, so maybe you truly are one of those who is willing to pass up game in the scope unless all the conditions are ideal. But I consider myself pretty ethical, and I know that I've taken imperfect shots in the heat of the moment. I may very well do it again. I'm imperfect (but working on it).
Unlike the IGFA, there's no reward for taking the biggest animal with the smallest bullet. You don't get extra points for it in heaven, and you sure won't get patted on the back for it around here. It's not about bragging rights... it's about doing everything you can to make a clean, quick kill.
A lot of what I've said here is simply my opinion. Ethics is always, at the root, a highly subjective animal. You don't have to agree. But give it some thought.
The "Is .243 enough gun..." thread is pretty well beat to death. It is enough gun, but there are better choices. Your 6mm is a slightly better choice. But I'll say this to your comments.
Please don't use a 55 grain bullet to shoot hogs. I'd even recommend against it for deer. It's just not enough bullet to guarantee penetration, and is most likely to crater on impact, creating a huge flesh wound and very little other damage.
Sure it can kill. A .22 short can kill. But in the field, wild pigs aren't generally standing still in the open like targets at the range, and the "perfect" shot a moment ago can turn marginal in a literal heartbeat. A mature boar is an extraordinarily tough animal, with thick skin and a sheath of heavy cartilage protecting the vitals... practically ruling out any shot but quartering-away if you're using a light bullet. Smaller pigs may go easier, but even they are tough.
I keep hearing all this about a "well-placed shot" and so forth. But I've been hunting big game for the greater part of my life, and I have to say that most shots in the field.. even from superior marksmen... are not as well-placed as the shooter would have liked. There are simply too many variables.
Shooting in the field bears almost no resemblance to shooting from a bench. Forget that 1/2 MOA group you got with a deep breath and a sandbag. It means nothing when your heart is pounding, and the best rest you can hope for is a shaky knee.
I'm sure it may be a little different hunting in Texas where there are lots of pigs and you can shoot over bait or under a feeder, but in CA, I work way too hard to get a shot on a pig to risk having to pass up my shot simply because I didn't have enough sense to use enough gun. And no matter where I hunt, I have too much respect for any animal I hunt to knowingly take such a huge risk of wounding and losing it.
Few and far between are the hunters who are truly willing to make the call to pass if the shot's not ideal. When there's an animal in the sights, most hunters will always leave a little room for luck, and take a chance, even if the situation isn't textbook. I don't know where you fit in that picture, but there's a big difference between taking that chance with an undersized round, and taking the chance with something that leaves room for error.
I don't know you, so maybe you truly are one of those who is willing to pass up game in the scope unless all the conditions are ideal. But I consider myself pretty ethical, and I know that I've taken imperfect shots in the heat of the moment. I may very well do it again. I'm imperfect (but working on it).
Unlike the IGFA, there's no reward for taking the biggest animal with the smallest bullet. You don't get extra points for it in heaven, and you sure won't get patted on the back for it around here. It's not about bragging rights... it's about doing everything you can to make a clean, quick kill.
A lot of what I've said here is simply my opinion. Ethics is always, at the root, a highly subjective animal. You don't have to agree. But give it some thought.
Speck,
Thanks for the well-written and kind reply. All of the points that you bring up are salient ones, particularly in your hunting area. My setup is a bit different...please let me explain. My hunting is done from a blind that is about 20' up. It's fully enclosed and has real windows (gasp!)
that are sturdy & function as well as a bench rest. The longest shot I have to deal with is 75', and my bullet takes about .06 seconds to travel that distance. My rifle has a set trigger, with about a 6 oz pull once it's set. I really don't plan on taking one through the boiler room, I only make head or neck shots. Hunting from a baited blind isn't that sporting, so by limiting myself to these shots makes it somewhat more of a challenge. The shooting lanes have been manually (and I do mean manually!) created with blood & sweat...the brush is so thick on either side that if a hog or a deer was standing 1 foot inside, I'd never see it. I do admit that I'm planning on working with the 80 gr load that I mentioned previously, just haven't got the chance to bring it to the range yet.
<shrug>
Michael
Thanks for the well-written and kind reply. All of the points that you bring up are salient ones, particularly in your hunting area. My setup is a bit different...please let me explain. My hunting is done from a blind that is about 20' up. It's fully enclosed and has real windows (gasp!)
<shrug>
Michael
hey,
i think we european have a different attitude of what caliber we ´ll take for hunting.
One thing is, that we aren´t allowed to use any caliber under 6,5 mm and an E100 under 2000Joule for big game hunting!
I hink the .243Win will work on boars up to 50kg and under 100m if u use the right bullet and shoot on the right place
.
But if u ask me,...it won´t be my 1st choice.
If u have a .30-06...u have enough gun, and are prepared for any situation. shoot onto the middle of the shoulder to make a one shot kill!
Shooting on the ear will work if u hit the right place,...but i won´t practice this at all. To much that could go wrong out in the wilderness!
all the best, and make the first shot count!
konstantin
i think we european have a different attitude of what caliber we ´ll take for hunting.
One thing is, that we aren´t allowed to use any caliber under 6,5 mm and an E100 under 2000Joule for big game hunting!
I hink the .243Win will work on boars up to 50kg and under 100m if u use the right bullet and shoot on the right place
But if u ask me,...it won´t be my 1st choice.
If u have a .30-06...u have enough gun, and are prepared for any situation. shoot onto the middle of the shoulder to make a one shot kill!
Shooting on the ear will work if u hit the right place,...but i won´t practice this at all. To much that could go wrong out in the wilderness!
all the best, and make the first shot count!
konstantin
