8-13-15 hunt Santa Barbara Co. Outfitters

[Maverick]

One sponsor gone. To ONE unhappy customer and, people jumping the gun to place judgment on something we know nothing about. It was good entertainment to read. Pig Guide sorry to see ya go. I believe that you were doing a service for the hunters here on JHO and for whatever the reason more money, losing lease, or out of the kindness of your heart, it was a service and most of the members wanted to get a part of it. It’s too bad that dirty laundry is air out for all the members. This is a situation that should have been handled by the parties involved not brought on to JHO less then 10 days {5 buisness days} after it happened .

 

[ddsrod]

Originally posted by Lurediver@Aug 23 2005, 10:58 AM
Pigig, Dr. Phil? Thought you were more of an Oprah type guy!

you all need more to do!!!
hunting is for fun and companionship not a popularity contest.

 

[Batch61]

Sounds like I'm the only one getting slandered here. I've been called so many names here I forgot my own. I do recall this site being about information. We all want to know what happens on a hunt or how a product like a rifle operates or handles and I gave an aaccurate account of my recent hunt. No judgement passed. No name calling. Just the events that happened like we are expected to do. And I didn't know that if I am offered another hunt that I am obligated to take it. Thought this was a pro choice country. To all of you who don't want to do business with me. Great. But you don't know me and I don't know you so maybe we already did business. What is your business??? I'm sure hunting guides are a strong fraternity and you'll always side with each other and I can understand that. I'm in construction and we all stick together and think the pain in the butt clients are always at fault. I tried to keep this between Tom and I but He didn't return my phone call. Well I'm ready to move on. How about them Angels.

 

[spectr17]

Tom. I'm not going to roll in the mud with you, people will figure out what you're about fast enough. There is a reason I didn't come back up to take over the "great lease". The "pigs everywhere tearing up the beans" turned into one set of sow tracks was all we saw in the bean fields. Tracks you made sure we saw. When a guide has to point out sign, it's not a good omen in my experience. Not one rooting area or turd in the bean fields.

Too many red flags. Red flags people were pointing out from the moment you started advertising your specials. You'll also notice there is no more advertising your operation here on the front page as Phil and I don't feel comfortable with it.

I asked several other pig guides what they would do over a hunt being cancelled on a lost lease. They all said they would refund. You said you would refund Batch's money Monday 9 days ago. That's undisputed.

Since you made a pocketful of coin off advertising here I'm just asking you take care of the guy and keep your word. If not, it's not the end of the world to Batch or me. If you don't have the money just say so. I'm sure Batch would even take payments.

Hronk, I've been there. Unless you have hands on experience on this I suggest you keep your shots to something you know a little about. Like you said, maybe you should just keep your yap shut since you know squat about what's happpened. I'm in the middle of it because I allowed the guy to advertise here and we ran an article about his operation. We bascially gave it our blessing and now we have several people who got burned telling the same thing Rick and I saw up there. Tom told Batch he would give him a refund and as the owner of this site who allowed Tom to solicit Batch and others here I feel partly responsible for the situation.

I do find it ironic that Tom was partners with Adam/Ray from Boars Canyon. Didn't we do this once before with him? Too good to be true hunts only to have problems later? Deja Vu all over again.

As far as the heavy fog, why climb up on the hill and stand in the damp dark? When the fog is the same at Tejon the guys with some smarts head low and find pigs to shoot. If people want to sit and shiver in the damp with no way of seeing, let alone shooting a pig, that is their choice. Pigs usually bed early morning so why waste that precious time hoping for a mircacle that the fog will lift? Plain as the nose on your face. The fog lifted there about noon so why bother up high early.? I pointed this out to Rick our first morning, not a real good decision IMHO since most clients want to see game and get a shot. I'll sit all day for not one look but most guys won't.

As far as my suggestion to sue Tom, what else you gonna do? Dude goes MIA yet finds time to view this post Sat night? Did all the cell towers fall down in Santa Barbara that night or the next day? Rick's and my cell phones worked dar near everywhere we went up there. What other recourse do you have if someone burns you for $300? Should someone just eat it? Sorry, I'm not going to and I woulodn't expect anyone else to and that's what the courts are for. Hronk, if you feel this should be kept out of the courts, why don't you pony up the $300 Batch feels he was burned on? Maybe $300 isn't a big deal to you but it is to most who have families and are scraping to get by.

As far as ethics, if the tale I'm hearing about a cross fence shooting is true and the yelling to get the pig dragged back over the fence then I can see why you're having trouble with the rancher there and his neighbors. Another red flag.

Caveat Emptor is all I'm going to say, I wouldn't want Tom to "Beat my ass" like all the cops and hundreds of others he claims to have whipped and drawn guns on.

 

[Cal hunter]

This is better then watching tv

 

[PIGIG]

Originally posted by Cal hunter@Aug 23 2005, 05:46 PM
This is better then watching tv

at leist the plot changes

i will add to choppers $100

 

[bzzboyz]

All I can say is that the most disturbing thing to come out of this entire thread is..............




























LUREDIVER'S AVATOR

 

[pitdog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

All I can say is that the most disturbing thing to come out of this entire thread is..............

LUREDIVER'S AVATOR   [/b]

I thank's she be purdy en stuff

 

[Franklin3]

from someone who knows none of the principals here I see from the outside several issues at play.
The bottom line seems to me that Tom made reasonable offers to right the wrong done on day 1 by offering another hunt. He might have put his foot in it when he agreed to refund the day.
As a bussiness owner I deal with all types of personalities and sometimes i have to eat it to salvage my rep and that is what I do. I feel I don't have a client until I have a REPEAT CLIENT. Sometimes I really don't want that person to come back however my reputation and word are everything to me and I will do everything I need to in order to protect them.
Tom as tough as it may be to swallow you seem like a righteous man to me and this incident would not affect my decision to book a hunt with you. You can ask some other guides who I have booked with and you'll see I have absolutely no problem turning over my hard earned money for the opportunity and have never nor would ever ask for a refund especially on the last day of a hunt. That being said you apparantly were asked for and further you apparantly agreed to Promptly refund a portion of your fee. I think if you really care about your reputation you'll do the right thing.

 

[spectr17]

Let's review a bit shall we?

Hunt is sold to me as shooting pigs in the beanfields and Tom has the hunting lease for all these properties. No mention of competeing with other hunters or night depredation shooters.

His own words, not mine.


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Day 1 was a fiasco. Bad day.[/b]

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Okay. Here's the run down. First. This is not an easy hunt by any stretch of the imagination. Period.[/b]

In my opinion you grossly overexaggerated the hunt prospects. Telling me the beanfields were getting hit hard and the farmer needed relief and then telling us to go high on the ridge and wait out the fog when we got there are two different tales. If you're going to stick people in cold fog for 5 hours until it lifts then you need to relay that to the client or you're going to have more unhappy folks than Batch and us. The hot action changed to we were up to early for the pigs. Again, the lack of sign in the beanfields bore this out the first day. It's why we didn't stay all day Sunday. What you were saying and what we were seeing didn't jive. Never did see any bucks with all the glassing we did. Usually if a guide has a good buck spotted he shows his clients. Guess those bucks were on vacation that week. I can show you a couple bucks every fall that I glass up at work. Some guides even have pics to show off but you mentioned it would take to many game cams to cover the property? Huh? One camera in a buck's favorite spot and VOILA! About $90 for a entry level Moultrie game camera at Wal Mart. The same bucks you said you glassed all the time. Maybe you just forgot to show us. It's why I wasn't one in here genuflecting about your lease. IMHO it was a pig in a polk.

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We had a mix up on day 1, but, day 2 brought sweet success with very little ambiant light out.[/b]

Mixup? Bumping into other hunters while on a lease is NOT something I would pay for nor have I ever seen that. Nor has anyone I've talked to, guide or hunter. If you have the lease it should be all yours. If you have other competeing hunters or relatives at least let the client know so he can decide if he wants that kind of hunt. The whole reason people pay for pig hunts in CA is for better odds at killing one and the promise you won't have other guys walking over the top of you. Batch could have had the same "Fiasco" on public land for free. He paid a grand for this?

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No planters on MY ranch.[/b]

Note the part about "MY" ranch. That implies he has sole rights there. "Our" is used to describe several people.

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I was apologetic and very accomadating in trying to rebook them with the dates that I have available. I know that they are the only persons that have been canceled due to the fact that there are issues on the ranch with the cattle and I needed to move some dates around. They are school teachers and won't be able to come on said dates.[/b]

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THEIR REFUND MONEY WAS IN THE MAIL WITHIN THE HOUR![/b]

Not according to Batch. He's still waiting.

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There was a conflict this weekend with encroachers and my guys suffered. They are unable to come up for a make up hunt so they are receiving partial refunds.[/b]

See above post.

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This goes to the old saying... " Never Guide the Guide "[/b]

That all depends on the guide. I've seen guides so drunk they couldn't stand up. Guides who hadn't even seen the territory they were guiding in. Guides who were so green they almost got their head blown off when they stepped in front of a rifle when the client was preparing to drop the animal that just stood up after being dropped. I have no problem telling a guide he's a goof if in my opinion he is. I'll back that up with 40 years of hunting experience. I may be wrong sometimes but usually my gut feeling is something I folllow and right.

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Thanks. I just firmly believe everyone, myself included, should step up to the plate and admit wrong doing when it has been done.[/b]

That's all were asking. If you say you will refund then do it and stop backpedaling and making excuses. As someone has already pointed out, you're just digging the hole deeper.

So in review for those who are on the sidelines wondering what the heck happened. You and your buddy pay for a lease hunt only to get confronted on your first day by the landowner, neighbor and freinds of the owner. You get one pig on the 2nd day by having the guide tell you to shoot across a fence only to have the guide screaming that you need to get that pig drug back across the fenceline before anyone sees it. You then are told no third day you PAID FOR since the guide lost the lease. Guide then says he'll refund the third day and then starts hemming and hawwing about the refund later. His phone suddenly doesn't work nor does he return any calls for several days.

When someone finally calls the guide on his taking care of his promise after a week of waiting he attacks those who are calling him on his word.

Sounds good to me. Where do I sign up?

 

[pig guide]

Hey Jesse. If you'll think a weeeee bit deeper, you'll also remember, that it was I, ME, not you, who found out the REAL truth about Adam, Don, or Ray, from boars canyon and turned him over to the Ca. Dept. Of Fish and Game.
Officer Rob Simpson.Office #559-243-4005 ext. 153

Sorry if I cover my tracks. I worry about running into people like you. And, if you'll look at the dates that I posted for the special hunts, they were limited. The people were very grateful. And all but 1......still are.

I have the money, not to worry. It is all a matter of principal now. Oh and for all of you. There has never, ever been 1 call from Mitch.

And as far as advertising me. That was on you. I never asked for it, or requested it. Remeber, I told you that there are good guides out there who will give the free hunts when they say it, and I did. I also asked you to remove me from your site because I am in your opinion, a baaaaaddddddd man.

Well, here is a copy of the e-mail that I sent you, extolling your kindness before you went out and blasted me. Who in the hell do you think you are? Let's let " THE REAL TRUTH be out there for all to see who we both are.

Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "tom younce" <tomyounce@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Subject: posting.
To: spectr17@jesseshunting.com


Morning Jesse.
I recieved your call Saturday evening while I was in the mountains with Bighorn67 and Orso for the second time. By the time I get home in the evening and leave in the morning, it is very impolite to call people.
I am online now, addressing the situation at hand. When my wife gets up, I will have her edit the content and of my reply and post the truth.
From the first contact, I knew I shouldn't have booked Mitch. I thought what the hell, I was wrong.
And after my post, which everyone needs to see for honesty, then, if you need to pull me completely off your site. Then, it needs to be done.
It is strictly a business strategy. I take no offense to however you decide to approach this situation. But, I did not post the fact that since he posted his inflammatory and slanderous remarks, without telling the whole truth, I was called within 3 hours of that post and lost a couple of bookings.
Also remember, it was I who posted the day of the hunt, the fiasco that occured. His is nothing that " I " did not report, about my operation first. Yes, I posted negative about myself. How many people or business owners do that?
Mitch is the number one reason that I decided to stop taking gun hunters. The attitude. I'll have my reply online in a few hours.
I just want to say, that I thoroughly enjoy your site and what you do for the hunting industry. I like you as a person for exactly who you are. Should you pull me from your site, it still will not change how I feel about you. Business is business.
Thanks for everything and please, let's get together for a squirrel hunt in Missouri.
We bought a house that is under construction and should be there in Mid October.
Talk to you soon.

 

[pig guide]

HERE IS A COPY OF A LETTER, WRITTEN IN ANGER TO THE CA. FISH AND GAME WARDEN ON THEIR INABILITY TO NAIL A CROOKED, UNLICENSED OUTFITTER.

Only I acted on the information when I learned of it. I have every correspondence between myself and the fish and game. Including my phone bills to match. That is called " Evidence "

The very same character that Jesse portrays me as being in business with. Yes in deed we met ON THIS WEBSITE and tried. 2 3/4 years ago. Once I found out a few things and did a background check, I turned him into the authorities. This is a follow up letter to the agent. please enjoy this Jesse.

Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "tom younce" <tomyounce@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Subject: Adam Chamberlin
To: RSIMPSON@dfg.ca.gov


Hey there Rob.
I just got this letter from Adam this morning and I am very disturbed by the fact that he is still in business and gaining more ground. I went above and beyond the scope of being a non-law enforcement person to obtain the needed information for an investigation and a conviction on multiple counts.
So, to say that I am angry about this moron still being in business, more than 18 months after his license expired, is truly an understatement.
Please explain to me why he is still in business and not barred from guiding yet.
He has so many violations.
People like me, who work their tails off, doing everything by the book and to the letter of the law, only to have some crook out there, taking from the legitimate businessman, is a horrifing mockery of the justice system and the Dept. of Fish and Game.
Thank you for your attention to this. Please call me and tell me what is going on.
Here is the letter from Adam that I received today detailing his latest success and the fact that the letter I sent to his landowner about his illegal operation, made it to him.

I still have not recieved a reply from the agent. So there it is. One more untruth about me. I have many more letters like this in my sent box for you to peruse if you'd like Jesse? OH YEA! I pulled the evidence off of YOUR website for the authorities. Amazing! You were burned by him and did nothing. I was burned by him and I did a check. Wow! Roll over and take it....or fight back.

Now, maybe you'll stop fighting so hard to try and spew forth crap about me that is entirely untrue. I keep my dealings as copies as I learned this working in a Law firm for the last 3 years.

I never, ever asked for a fight. It was brought to me by Mitch and then by you.
I am merely showing you "The OTHER SIDE " of what you said, in writing, to the party that I said, as proof. ONE MORE TIME!!!!! I D O N ' T lie.

NOW...Once again, take me off of your site. I am evil.

 

[boarhunter67]

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In my opinion you grossly overexaggerated the hunt prospects.[/b]

Boy, I think Jesse's right. Tom definitely overstated the prospects. Saying there was pigs up there. Just because a lot of people saw and shot pigs doesn't mean Tom has a right to say there are pigs there. And just because Jesse said that it was a great property doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right later to say he knew it was bad all along. And just because only client to complain even got a pig doesn't mean it's a good property. I mean come on, make some sense.

 

[Common Sense]

Originally posted by pig guide@Aug 23 2005, 04:14 AM
THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST AND I AM DONE WITH THIS HIDEOUS SITE. JESSE HAS LIED TO YOU ALL ABOUT ME.                          TO MANY PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN MY KINDNESS AS BEING A

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[/b]

I've noticed a post or two since that statement! 'nuff said.



Also I know of a member who was suspended for the exact same thing that followed "BEING A" from the above quote.

 

[boarhunter67]

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Some guides even have pics to show off but you mentioned it would take to many game cams to cover the property? Huh?[/b]

I thought Tom did show a picture of a buck from his property. It's posted on the blacktail board. So much for there not being any game there.

 

[Maverick]

Originally posted by boarhunter67@Aug 24 2005, 07:55 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

In my opinion you grossly overexaggerated the hunt prospects.

Boy, I think Jesse's right. Tom definitely overstated the prospects. Saying there was pigs up there. Just because a lot of people saw and shot pigs doesn't mean Tom has a right to say there are pigs there. And just because Jesse said that it was a great property doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right later to say he knew it was bad all along. And just because only client to complain even got a pig doesn't mean it's a good property. I mean come on, make some sense. [/b][/quote]
HUH

 

[smallblockfuelie]

Was it Jesse or Spec who was talking about all the pig sign and the strong odor of a boar that they smelt while on the property.

Jesse, I am curious to hear why you gave Tom and his service a thumbs up if you didn't really feel it was top notch. Several people here booked with Tom as a result of the review that you posted on your sight.

Tom, I am sorry to hear you wont be taking any more rifle hunters out in the future. It is always unfortunate when the few ruin it for the many. Good luck to ya in MO and on that upcoming fishing trip.

 

[spectr17]

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I mean come on, make some sense.[/b]

I get calls once in awile where a buddy says they're covered up in game. When I get there the sign is there and it's not long until to we find the game.

We covered several ridges and beanfields at Tom and didn't even see one pig track or turd or rooting area. The one track he took us to see was in the first beanfield. That was the only track I saw the whole weekend. We did see one old wallow hole.

So, if he was covered up in pigs as he claimed why then why did it change to "It's a tough hunt" and why did then say we were up too early in the season for the better pig action?

Where I'm from that's called double speak, forked tongue, taking out both sides of yer mouth. Rick, the guy I was with had the same opinion and he told me so last night since he working to long of hours to post here. We both cover some ground and the hunt was a bust from our pig hunting adventures.

Now if the pig action has turned for Orso and Dave then that's great. I'm not talking about their hunt, I'm relating to what happened on our hunt. My own personal experience along with Rick's and how Tom presented the hunt to us.

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Boy, I think Jesse's right. Tom definitely overstated the prospects. Saying there was pigs up there. Just because a lot of people saw and shot pigs doesn't mean Tom has a right to say there are pigs there.[/b]

So far the one pig that's been posted here was shot on another property and drug back over before anyone saw it according to Batch. IF that is how my guide wants me to act I'll pass. No need to get cited or into a screaming match with the rancher or his neighbors.

Wait, didn't that happen already?

But hey, in your book that's one pig down right B67?

Nice attempt at a smoke screen guys, what say we get back to the issue that brought this on. A guy who had his hunt turn into a "Fiasco" as the guide called it. Any word on the refund yet?

When the hole gets to where you can't see you may want to lean on that shovel for awhile.

 

[Orso]

Why would Batch67 shoot a game animal on someone else's property? If he knew (I repeat, if he knew) the animal was out of bounds, why would he shoot it? Just becuase someone said to do it, is a bad excuse.

Illegal?

 

[spectr17]

Welll Orso, if you're following the guide and he knows his property and he drops to a knee and says pigs, take em. What would you do? Not knowing the property boundaries and putting my faith in the guide I would shoot myself. I'd have the arse if the guide then starting hollering to get the pig back across the fence before someone saw it.

Remember, we don't "guide the guide" according to Tom. Do as your told.

Illegal? Why yes it's called trespass.