Apple

[Common Sense]

Is Apple right to refuse to help the government?



I could argue either side. I sure am not an Apple fan; but I just might trust them more than a government.

 

[quaildeath]

I like it. It is a slippery back door slope. Wait, that didn't come out right.

I find it amazing that the brains at the FBI can't figure it out themselves with unlimited resources.
Maybe they do not want to be associated with breaching our fourth amendment so let's have Apple do it.
I believe it possible that Apple could put together a 2-3 person team dedicated to this, obtain the data, print it out and give it to them. Destroy phone and all backup data.

 

[Marty]

I don't see anywhere that the Gmen are asking to be shown how to decrypt the phone data.
So, no, I don't agree with Apple.

(edit)
Cnet is reporting that the request was for programming to circumvent the password protection.

 

[Bubblehide]

The decryption is already figured out, and obviously the easy part.

 

[OPAH]

If they do who will buy their phones, that was the selling point, security. In the interests of national security I would say yes they should, but you know how that goes all of a sudden we all are nation security risks, and they should have access to all communications and records. which basically what is being done now.
Remember back in the day 5th 0r 6th grade when they showed that movie that the government was watching everything you do well here we are

 

[BelchFire]

Even if you're an Android fan, you should be paying attention. Apple is a private company; since when can the government compel a private company to do something against their business interest just because the FBI can't do it alone? I agree with Apple; no door, once created, can ever be completely secured for the exclusive use of the end user and him alone.

 

[inchr48]

One more ratchet of the wheel, turning our citizen rights over to the Government.

Some argue since the felons are dead, it doesn't matter. But what of the rights of us left living?

Don't they already have phone records of who they may have called? Get a warrant for searching their phones. Use due process.

 

[ltdann]

When I was in the service, there was a requirement for ALL active duty service members to provide DNA samples. The idea was that in time of war, there'd no longer be the unknown soldier. Quite a few folks protested providing the DNA samples citing privacy concerns and claiming that once provided the Government could do anything with it. More than one or two people were court martialed over the refusal.

We were ASSURED that the DNA would only be used by the military to identify human remains resulting from combat.

Very quietly, 18 months later, a Federal judge opened the military DNA database to all law enforcement agencies because it was just too useful law enforcement tool not to use.

So, I'm with Apple on this. Once opened, that door can NOT be closed.

 

[Bossbrott]

I'm with Apple as well.

The govt can # sand.

 

[P304X4]

One more ratchet of the wheel, turning our citizen rights over to the Government.

Some argue since the felons are dead, it doesn't matter. But what of the rights of us left living?

Don't they already have phone records of who they may have called? Get a warrant for searching their phones. Use due process.

x2....let Apple unlock the phone and turn printed copies of the data over to the Gov.

 

[Bankrunner]

I think Bubble is more than likely right in that apple (the people that wrote the encryption code) could open the phone.
I also think we should have the right to disregard the privacy of terrorists.
So on a case by case basis a federal judge should be able to order apple to open a specific phone.
Set the parameters of what constitutes the loss of your privacy and write it into law.

 

[Bubblehide]

The data could potentially be encrypted, but I seriously doubt it is on a phone as there are no options to encrypt data on a phone. But our government already has solved the encrypted data issue long ago, and has no problem taking encrypted data and unencrypting it. This issue is different from encryption in the the data is unknown, likely not encrypted at all. What is going on here is that the device is locked, and has a fail safe, fail providing the correct entry code 10 times in a row, and the device deleates all data, phone numbers, photos, everything. and then the phone resets to manufacture settings and is accessable. I find this case interesting in that with computers, when we go through the normal process of data deletion, the data still exists, and the FBI has recovered such data numerous times. It seems that Appple has their phones actually completly deleting all data, making it unrecoverable; not an issue to a phone theif that is interested in reseling the phone.

But I'm with P304x4 on this one. Pay Apple to unlock the phone, if the data is encrypted, give them the de-cryption softwear, and then Apple can provide the FBI with the unencrypted data.

 

[Monica Moralez]

So u guys should check out this link. I think he does a good job of explaing what's at stake here.
https://youtu.be/V79NC9O91dg

 

[OPAH]

Yes he does,

 

[quaildeath]

Watching the new Daily Show and it is actually 175 phones law enforcement needs Apple to help them out with.
You still in agreement with helping them out? See....., we don't hear this on the news. It's not just a single, please help us out with this one little thing.

 

[OPAH]

Its all phones, the court order states that Apple must make a program (A KEY) and give it to the feds, this is after the aFed were told no on forcing phone manufacturers to install back doors for them to access. If this happens it will be the Big Brother we were warned about in elementary school.

 

[KTKT70]

I find it amazing that the brains at the FBI can't figure it out themselves with unlimited resources.
Maybe they do not want to be associated with breaching our fourth amendment so let's have Apple do it.

Yes I'm a crazy USMC brat. Son of a LtCol and I had a uncle that was agent for one of those 3 letter kind of groups.
My thought is that the government can and will do just about anything they want at anytime. The key is who will know and or find out. At times they can not appear to have done things do to safety. Kind of like the can't close door idea. I think it is "you can't put the genie back in the bottle" This may be the case here. Could be hiding a little of there skills. Never show all your cards. Can't go to fourth with everything and say we don't know how we got it.

Reminds me of of great president wanting to keep his blackberry. Who cares... Have 2 or 3. The government has had a clone of it long before he hit the white house. They know everything. That's part of being big brother and keeping a eye out for little bro.

 

[OPAH]

"That's part of being big brother and keeping a eye out for little bro."

More of a Mommy Dearest, with a closet full of wire hangers

 

[#1Predator]

Hmmmm.....isn't it interesting that Apple CEO Tim Cook is, according to several tech companies, "staunchly supporting the Constitution and the First and Fourth Amendments against government intrusion", and, yet, when it came to "staunchly supporting the Constitution" regarding the Second Amendment, Cook thought that firearm ownership and possession should be strictly regulated.

I'm just thinking out loud here but if I wanted to gain more info on terrorists types, wouldn't it be to my advantage to say, "I can't break Apple's encryption", when, in reality, I did break the encryption. Misinformation can work wonders in the intelligence game.:stir pot:opcorn:

 

[Bubblehide]

...

I'm just thinking out loud here but if I wanted to gain more info on terrorists types, wouldn't it be to my advantage to say, "I can't break Apple's encryption", when, in reality, I did break the encryption. Misinformation can work wonders in the intelligence game.:stir pot:opcorn:

Your read my mind on this. I almost post the same thoughts the other day. To me, it is obvious that the FBI should lose this case in court, so the only reason to take it as far as they have, would be misinformation. My guess is that they drag this out in the courts as long as they can. Hopefully the terrorists fall for it.