AR-15

[Bigolwiggler]

Lets say that some guy who lives in Calif just built himself an AR with a registered lower, Stag upper assembly ( south-paw type) with carry handle, Cal legal 10 rd magazine etc. etc...

This guy knows that to be legal one must have a mag release button that requires a 'tool' to make it function, that was installed also.

Question;

Is it ever technically legal to remove the magazine while inside the Cal. state borders ? -Or- is it, as has been suggested to me, that you must pull a reciever pin , hinge the weapon open and load it from the top ?

I havn't been able to get a definitive answer on this.

I ..... or rather.....'some guy' should know this before he does any sort of public plinking.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

BOW

 

[Marty]

FWIW, such a firearm would be confiscated on its' physical appearance before anyone having had it in their possession could state a plausible explaination of its' existence to the confiscating LEO.

 

[jmabbott888]

With an AR, I'd stick to shooting at the legal/business style ranges. If you got caught in the "field" with it who knows what would happen. I shoot my rifles that are "questionable) at the range only like the M-1 carbine, sks, etc. The SKS is a Russian 1950 model & the carbine is a war bringback, both completely legal but I ain't losing them (especially grandads carbine) to some ranger/sheriff that wants it or doesn't know the law.

 

[hntnnut]

Heres a link to a thread on the subject over at calguns.net
CALGUNS LINK
With a bullet button installed it is perfectly legal to remove the magazine from the gun (no top loading required) because it requires a tool to do so.


Richard

 

[Bigolwiggler]

Yea, I saw the 'bullet button' at a gun show. I will likely pick one up.
When I put this rifle together I ended up just threading the stock button a few threads farther in than what is needed. I then added a slotted nut to the exposed threads. You can remove the nut with a small wrench or a coin via the slot.
I know its legal per Calif law but the 'bullet button' is a slick little unit.
Thanks for the Calgun link. It answered my question about the leagality of removing the mag.
I dont like taking this thing out with people around me that I dont know. Its all legal but just because it looks a little scary, someone might get the idea that it needs to be confiscated.

Thanks for the hep

BOW

 

[sjuels]

So, reading on calguns:

<blockquote>To be legally safe in California, an off-list AR15-type lower receiver should never have a pistol grip or
telestock, etc. attached unless and until a nondetachable (fixed) 10-rd magazine is already affixed.
When repairing or dismantling such a rifle, features such as pistol grips, telestocks, etc. must first be
removed before removing the fixed 10-rd magazine.</blockquote>

IANAL, but I read this as you cannot remove the magazine, with the tool, as long as the other offending features (pistol grip, telescopic stock, etc.) are present, and you can therefore not push the bullet-button to release the mag and plug a new one in, before you have removed the pistol grib.

/Soren

 

[Bigolwiggler]

sjuels,

I guess that owning this thing (in Calif) is a little complicated. I guess I need to get off my lazy butt and dig into the Cal Law books. I have erred on the side of safety with detaching the mag.......well yunno, I have to take things apart to clean it sometimes tho.

Its just good to know where you stand with this sort of instrument...

Along the AR-15 line of things , here is a piece of trivia that I got from a Nevada gun shop. The guy said while I was there loking at an AR-15.

QUOTE " If you are a California citizen then I can not legally sell you this weapon , BUT , if you have a GREEN CARD, I can sell it to you."

I was like " what ??!! I am a U.S. citizen , and I cant buy this thing here ?? but a non citizen with a green card can !!! ??? *%$@#*!

Is this rediculous or What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????

He said, "YEP"

Only in Amerika

BOW

 

[savage99]

The answer (currently) is you may remove the magazine using the tool. By definition, a rifle that requires a tool to remove a magazine of less then 10 rounds is not a AW. Note that should you possess a larger mag and only this rifle as it could then be defined as a AW. Male sure the rifle is over 30 inches. However, the note regarding removing a AW feature prior to the mag is a good note for someone to consider if they are in a hostile environment and they don't want to become a test case.

This is not to say a ranger, warden, deputy, or other LEO won't be ignorant of the law. Ever try calling DFG or DMV for a clarification on a regulation.

Note that if the rifle has a rimfire upper the AW regs don't apply either.

 

[SCREWLOOSE]

BOW, hit the books and get a hard copy of any law that you believe may be open to interpretation. That way you can give a legal lesson in the field. Lately I've been downloading DFG regulations to my phone so that if a question ever arises I have the info I need at hand.

 

[slainte114]

Just to revisit this a little.

When you use the bullet button, you are technically disassembling the weapon, not removing a "removable magazine." Make sense?

It is perfectly legal, for now, to use the bullet button mag release. Change mags. Hunt with it. Any legal use of this RIFLE. It's not an assault rifle with this type of mag release.

As for "over zealous wardens." I talked to several. On the phone, and in the feild when I could find them (two in reality). They all said they are well aware of this type of mag release and have no problem with it.

I understand the concern. That's why I called fish and game and spoke to the two I could find.

That being said, I carry print outs of all the laws with me. From DOJ, Penal Code, Fish and Game code, etc... I'm not so worried about Fish and Game, I'm more worried about local cops and Highway Patrol. It's amazing to learn how many of them know nothing about what's legal and not. Game Wardens seem to know much more. Maybe they just come across it more, I don't know.

 

[Backcountry]

Every reply missed the most important thing in the OP's original post...

Lets say that some guy who lives in Calif just built himself an AR with a registered lower

Stop right there... if indeed the lower is a registered assault weapon, then all this other garbage is moot... the OP can configure the weapon any way he desires (short of a SBR), and use regular capacity magazines (provided he owned them prior to the ban).

If the weapon is not a registered AW, then the lower is not registered, as there is no registration for long guns (and the lower damn sure better be an OLL).

 

[slainte114]

Since the OP was talking about the bullet button and 10 round mags, I assumed that he meant an off list lower when he said "registered."

Also, since he's just now asking these questions, I figured he just got it. Which would also probably mean it's not a registered AW. I don't know very many people who can hold on to a stripped lower for that long without building it!

 

[Backcountry]

I pointed out the use of the word "registered" not only for the folks who replied, but also the OP and anyone else reading this.

Either it was a mistake, or the OP doesn't know what he's talking about because long guns do not require registration in CA.

Gun laws are complex enough in their own right without Joe-public spreading misinformation.

 

[bowslinger]

I too agree with huntnnut

 

[JohnX]

The answer (currently) is you may remove the magazine using the tool.

This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE according to every person i have talked to on the matter.

Removing the mag is illegal unless the gun is disassembled first. I have been told this by several rangemasters who informed me that if I drop the mag, they call the police. Also backed up by two very reputable black rifle dealers in my area.

If someone can find clear laws to the contrary in actual Cal. penal codes, PLEASE tell me!!!!!!

 

[Backcountry]

John, sorry, but you are highly misinformed.

Live your life as a sheep, or educate yourself on the law.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

FYI, there has not been a single sucessful prosecution in California based on the gargbage that your range master and BRD's have been feeding you.

 

[JohnX]

Thats great, and I've seen it before. But where on there does it address removing the mag....no where. Also, that isn't CA penal code, that is a website interpretation of it.

I stand by my previous post. If you are at a range, or in the field, dropping the mag might get you in some trouble, all depends on the LEO's interpretation of the law. And yes, you may win in court, but I can't afford the lawyer to fight that battle.

And as for the sheep....come on, are we twelve or what?

 

[Backcountry]

There is NOTHING in the penal code that explicity indicates what is legal, only what is illegal... the bullet button was designed to follow the explicit letter of the law, and there is copious information available on line to that effect.

So do whatever you want... same as everyone else should... but don't go spreading YOUR incorrect interpretation of the law here... you're entitled to your opinion, but stating that your opinion is fact is going too far.

 

[JohnX]

you're entitled to your opinion, but stating that your opinion is fact is going too far.

That is fair. But I never said it was my opinion, nor did I say it was a "fact", I only said what i've heard from people who "should" know.

My opinion is that I am not willing to take the chance and find out I'm wrong.



I honestly hope your correct, because I do drop mags in the field, just not at the ranges I go to.

 

[bowslinger]

That is a good suggestion/idea screwloose!! Having the info readily at hand when needed is a major plus, given your cell phone doesnt run out of juice..