Back From Klamath Bull Hunt...... Summary (Pics)

[tmoniz]

Whoadog

What do you mean by crippled. A pooched shot and no recovery?
A guide that doesn't follow up? What's up with that?

 

[Whoadog]

Cary and two game wardens searched for the cripple for a day with no luck. Cary also had a guy on the Del Norte hunt this year that crippled a bull at 10 yards, he shot eight times and hit it once. The same wardens helped for again a day with no luck. In Cary's mind the hunt should have been over in both cases but the clients don't seem to mind shooting another animal, to each their own. I have hunted with several people and have seen only one other person that could track as good as Cary can.

 

[WildlifeBranch]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Whoadog @ Sep 12 2007, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Cary and two game wardens searched for the cripple for a day with no luck. Cary also had a guy on the Del Norte hunt this year that crippled a bull at 10 yards, he shot eight times and hit it once. The same wardens helped for again a day with no luck. In Cary's mind the hunt should have been over in both cases but the clients don't seem to mind shooting another animal, to each their own. I have hunted with several people and have seen only one other person that could track as good as Cary can.[/b]

wow, I learn something new every day. I would have guessed that would be illegal to shoot another.

 

[Speckmisser]

Illegal? I don't think so... but you could probably tell us best, Wildlife. While most outfitters and guides call a hit a kill and end the hunt there, I don't recall anything in the DFG regs that say the same thing.

Ethically? I guess it depends. If it's a killing shot, in a place where there are very limited numbers of animals, then yeah, it should count as a kill and you should go home. If you clank a shot off an elk's (or deer, bear, hog, whatever) leg or butt, that is almost certainly not fatal, then maybe not. Who is to judge? Only the hunter and the guide...

 

[WildlifeBranch]

right, the phrase "reduced to possession" becomes important here. I was thinking more along the lines of ethical responsibility -- my error.

It gets gray pretty quick.

 

[tmoniz]

Well. I'm glad to hear your friend Carey did in fact put forth the effort to try to recover those animals.
That tells me he takes his hunting serious. And he is ethical.
I don't have a problem with a guide like that. I'd book him.

Ya gotta love opening day anywhere. I'll be sitting on a ridge and suddenly hear the classic 4 shots back to back, a slight pause and then four more. Makes you wonder whether they got the animal or not.

Fortunately I have never lost an animal.

Knock on wood.

 

[snoopdogg]

Cary is top notch--I would expect nothing but the best effort of him. The hunters--well, they are only as good as they can be and we all know that varies from person to person.

Whoadog, another B&C bull? Is it on his website yet?

 

[tmoniz]

Is this the Cary Jellison that guides for Steelhead as well. G and J Outdoors?

 

[spectr17]

Same Cary Tmoniz. Cary has registered here so he can post now.

Welcome Cary.

 

[Caryoutdoors]

My name is Cary Jellison and I own and operate G & J Outdoor Enterprises. I am a full time hunting and fishing guide in California and Nevada. Last week I got a phone call from one of my clients while I was guiding on the Klamath elk hunt and he told me about the post by ebolavirs after his hunt. After nine years in a row and probably 60 + days of guiding this hunt I have a way different view of the Klamath hunt than he does.

First of all, I do agree with ebolavirs that Green Diamond Resource Co. does a GREAT JOB with these hunts. The Klamath, Del Norte, and Big Lagoon hunts all take place on their property. They could easily get PLM tags and sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars but instead choose to let the public come onto their property and hunt. I don't know why they do it, but they bend over backwards for the hunters. They provide a place to camp, a walk-in cooler for your elk, all the information on where the elk are, and let you hunt the elk on their property. They even help people get their animals out of the woods and I don't think anyone could ever say enough good things about what they do for the hunters.

There are some points made by ebolavirs that I completely disagree with. He said that all of the guides were guiding archery bear hunters before the season and this is how they scouted. There were only two guides on this hunt and I did not set foot on the property until after orientation. He said he was told that the hunt has steadily declined with the slow down in logging. I started guiding this hunt in 1999 and they gave 30 either sex tags and usually took 3 - 5 animals. The last 3 years the success has been the best ever. This year they ended up with 8 out of 10 cow hunter's successful and 7 out of 11 bull hunter's successful. There were also 3 bulls taken that will score over the B&C minimum of 290 this year and none of them were taken on Williams Ridge which is where ebolavirs says is the only area of the hunt where there are large numbers of elk.

The thing I really find upsetting about ebolavirs comments is that he says that if you hired a guide, you wasted your money and that after opening morning, luck is the only thing that decides success. I couldn't disagree more. I hunted 7 days with my client (6 actual days hunting) and we saw 9 bulls on the property after opening morning. She ended up taking a 317 gross 6x6 on day 7 at about 100 yards that was not on Williams Ridge. This is the seventh B&C bull a client of mine has taken on these hunts (5 on the Klamath and 2 on the Del Norte) and I don't think it's luck. She is doing a life size mount of her record book bull and thinks her guide was worth every penny.

Unfortunately she also crippled a bull that was bigger than the one she took and after tracking that bull for a full day it went over two miles and back onto the National Park. This bull was at least 6 miles from Williams Ridge and in an area that nobody else ever hunts. There are at least four other things in ebolavirs post that are incorrect but I think everyone gets my point. I think a hunt where 27% of the tag holders take B&C bulls is a great hunt.

 

[Humboldt Hunter]

Cary,
Looking forward to hiring you as my guide if I ever pull the Del Norte or Klamath Hunt. Thanks for the facts and overview of the Klamath hunt from someone who has spent quite a few years participating.

 

[ebolavirs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Caryoutdoors @ Sep 17 2007, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

My name is Cary Jellison and I own and operate G & J Outdoor Enterprises. I am a full time hunting and fishing guide in California and Nevada. Last week I got a phone call from one of my clients while I was guiding on the Klamath elk hunt and he told me about the post by ebolavirs after his hunt. After nine years in a row and probably 60 + days of guiding this hunt I have a way different view of the Klamath hunt than he does.

First of all, I do agree with ebolavirs that Green Diamond Resource Co. does a GREAT JOB with these hunts. The Klamath, Del Norte, and Big Lagoon hunts all take place on their property. They could easily get PLM tags and sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars but instead choose to let the public come onto their property and hunt. I don't know why they do it, but they bend over backwards for the hunters. They provide a place to camp, a walk-in cooler for your elk, all the information on where the elk are, and let you hunt the elk on their property. They even help people get their animals out of the woods and I don't think anyone could ever say enough good things about what they do for the hunters.

There are some points made by ebolavirs that I completely disagree with. He said that all of the guides were guiding archery bear hunters before the season and this is how they scouted. There were only two guides on this hunt and I did not set foot on the property until after orientation. He said he was told that the hunt has steadily declined with the slow down in logging. I started guiding this hunt in 1999 and they gave 30 either sex tags and usually took 3 - 5 animals. The last 3 years the success has been the best ever. This year they ended up with 8 out of 10 cow hunter's successful and 7 out of 11 bull hunter's successful. There were also 3 bulls taken that will score over the B&C minimum of 290 this year and none of them were taken on Williams Ridge which is where ebolavirs says is the only area of the hunt where there are large numbers of elk.

The thing I really find upsetting about ebolavirs comments is that he says that if you hired a guide, you wasted your money and that after opening morning, luck is the only thing that decides success. I couldn't disagree more. I hunted 7 days with my client (6 actual days hunting) and we saw 9 bulls on the property after opening morning. She ended up taking a 317 gross 6x6 on day 7 at about 100 yards that was not on Williams Ridge. This is the seventh B&C bull a client of mine has taken on these hunts (5 on the Klamath and 2 on the Del Norte) and I don't think it's luck. She is doing a life size mount of her record book bull and thinks her guide was worth every penny.

Unfortunately she also crippled a bull that was bigger than the one she took and after tracking that bull for a full day it went over two miles and back onto the National Park. This bull was at least 6 miles from Williams Ridge and in an area that nobody else ever hunts. There are at least four other things in ebolavirs post that are incorrect but I think everyone gets my point. I think a hunt where 27% of the tag holders take B&C bulls is a great hunt.[/b]

I am not out to sell anyone on anything, you have a financial stake in this I do not, people can take what I say with a grain of salt. I only provided the viewpoint of an average hunter who drew this hunt. 11 bull hunters? I thought only 10 tags were issued? Anyway congrats on your clients success.

 

[Caryoutdoors]

ebolavirs, I am not out to sell anyone anything but just wanted to correct the things you wrote that weren't true. I have guided that hunt for nine years in a row and usually have two or three other hunters on standby like I did this year if I am successful early. There will be 11 bull tags more than likely again next year and just like the nine years before, a certain number of them will be looking for a guide so I don't need to sell myself.

There are actually 11 tags, not 10. Each hunt that Green Diamond does on their property (Big Lagoon, Klamath, and the Del Norte), Fish and Game gives them one tag to do with as they wish. This particular hunt, they have been giving the tag to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation for the last four years. RMEF sells raffle tickets and draws a name out of the hat for the winner at one of their dinners. The Del Norte tag has been sold the last four years with all the proceeds donated to local charities. I believe the Big Lagoon tag they raffle off to one of their employees. Like I said before, they just don't make companies like Green Diamond in this day and age. They do a lot of good in their community as well as for the elk, even though they eat the tops of their new trees.

 

[richardoutwest]

First of all, I am not taking sides!!

It really is hard being a Guide or an Outfitter!! When you carry a title of such, hunters assume that you can work miracles... The most that one can do is give an honest PREDICTION of what one can harvest. If the Guide or Outfitter is 100% honest with the Client and the Client has done their homework before the hunt, then that is hunting! Many things can happen on a hunt, even on a hunt that has a very high success rate!! That is just hunting!!

It really eats me when I don't come through for someone when I am on their dime! All of us feel the same way!! Outfitting and Guiding is a word of mouth business, you do not sell hunts if you are not producing! It is just that simple!!
It is in the best interest of the Outfitter and Guide for you to have a good hunt and be successfull!!

I am sorry that you feel you had a misleading hunt, I hope that your next hunt is more rewarding for you. I do not know Cary, but I think he feels the same way!

Congrats on your bull!!

 

[tmoniz]

I would book a guide with a track record of getting a hunter on so many B@C bulls. Money well spent if you've got the dough. Even when guided there are hunters who screw the pooch. I was on one of those a few years back. The guy wounded 2 and they were never recovered. Many hunters need to do their homework a little better before they take the leap. And they should also do a little more scouting rather than assuming based off what they have read or heard that alot of premium hunts are not a cake walk.

 

[SCREWLOOSE]

What I'm getting from all of this is that GREEN DIAMOND is a KICK ASS company. Thumbs up and a big THANK YOU to them.

 

[tmoniz]

Ditto on the Green Mountain thing. They could easily lock people out. Much like John Hancock Insurance did to me and others in a honey hole in Wyoming. It's good to see a major corp help out the little guy. Kuddos.

 

[spectr17]

From talking with some folks that were at these hunts I hear of some knuckleheads bent on losing this hunt for the rest who put in for it each year.

Green Diamond rules say no quads for scouting or hunting, only for retrieving game but one hunter thought he was the exception.

When this goof was reminded of the ATV requirements he claimed it was BS and didn't apply to him

Another hunter ignored the no dogs rule and was seen hunting with a dog.

Only a matter of time until the landowners get tired of that nonsense. We're guests on their land, is it that hard to follow the house rules?

How about it wardens and DFG? Can you at least cite them or toss them off the hunt before they get the hunt cancelled?

 

[WildlifeBranch]

Use of ATVs on private property would be up to the landowner to enforce; but if a game warden saw someone hunting elk with the help of a dog, yeah, that's illegal. Sounds like they were in the vicinity:

"...Cary and two game wardens searched for the cripple for a day with no luck...."

 

[ebolavirs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spectr17 @ Sep 18 2007, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

From talking with some folks that were at these hunts I hear of some knuckleheads bent on losing this hunt for the rest who put in for it each year.

Green Diamond rules say no quads for scouting or hunting, only for retrieving game but one hunter thought he was the exception.

When this goof was reminded of the ATV requirements he claimed it was BS and didn't apply to him

Another hunter ignored the no dogs rule and was seen hunting with a dog.

Only a matter of time until the landowners get tired of that nonsense. We're guests on their land, is it that hard to follow the house rules?

How about it wardens and DFG? Can you at least cite them or toss them off the hunt before they get the hunt cancelled?[/b]

The instruction sheet from F+G mentions use of ATV's as authorized by land owner and no dogs. The instruction sheet given by green diamond also mentions ATV use at their discretion but does not mention no dogs. Dogs were also not mentioned as a no no during orientation, and the Green Diamond manager has a dog at his side all the time out there, I doubt they have a problem with dogs as long as they are companions and not hunting. As far as the ATV goes I know one of the guides was riding an ATV around. He asked us if we had seen his client and when we asked him about his ATV he said it was because one of his clients had an injured back, the game warden was present and saw the guy so I don't think it was an issue. Older guy with the dog was also around the warden so I doubt he was up to anything illegal. Green Diamond was pretty accomodating during the hunt so they may have told the guide with the injured client it was OK to use the ATV?