Backpack Upgrade

[MattS]

I have decided to upgrade my Kelty pack this year, with something quieter and more suited for hunting. I have been looking at the Dwight Schuh packs and the Badland packs (Kirafu is a little too expensive for my taste). I was wondering if any one here has experience with these packs? My friend got the Badlands 2800, but I am courious how this pack would pack out a boned deer. I like how compact the badland's is however. I looked at the Schuh mega pack, but that is ONE BIG BAG! The Schuh hunter pack sounds about right, at 3500 cc.
I am looking for something to haul 5 days worth of gear, and pack out a deer if I get lucky. I plan to hunt with the bag on, but take it off for stalks. Basically a good bivy hunting bag. I would appreciate any advice you all have to offer! Thanks, Matt

 

[cahuntr]

MattS,
Check out the Wolf Pack Systems. I ordered mine and will be recieving it soon. I saw it at the Sportsman Exposition in San Mateo this year and they look to be a great pack system. Check them out at www.wolfpacksystems.com

 

[dreaminhogs]

I have Cabelas Alaskan Outfitters pack and frame system. It has 5,300 cu and the frame has a game shelf to carry out your meat. It also is detachable so you can carry just the pack and leave the frame behind if need be. Cost is $199.
www.cabelas.com

 

[BDB]

I have also been looking at a new pack. I still use my circa 1970's pack. It didn't even have a hip belt, I had to put on an aftermarket one. Works like a champ now and the entire pack is super light. I looked into the Alaskan packs from Cabelas but the 12lbs seemed really heavy to me. I doubt mine wights more than 2-3 pounds. And it has a fold out shelf at the bottom for dealing with quarters or game bags.

I'll be curious about the results of this thread though as I suspect I will be getting a new pack soon and reading others results with theirs sure helps the decision making process.

 

[Backcountry]

First off, I'm a life-long backpacker and I've spent countless nights in the High Sierras.

I looked into the Badlands packs (and several others) for backpacking/hunting and I think they are waaaaay too heavy... the Badlands 4500 is listed in their catalog as being 8.5 pounds and in my mind that's too much and a waste of precious carrying capacity. I bet it's real comfy, but there are plenty of less expensive, equally comfortable, and much lighter packs on the market.

Personally, I think that backpacks made for hunting are a product that's trying to do it all as far as being able to haul heavy loads, be comfortable, be light, be quiet, have some special features for hunters like camo fabric choices, a place to strap a rifle/bow, perhaps a blaze panel, and game hauling ability... but no manufacturer is doing the combination of those things well.

I haven't seen a single large-capacity dedicated hunting backpacking pack that doesn't have some serious flaws, be it price, weight, or general design. I think the ones designed around the Coleman plastic frame (and similar designs) suck the most as they are excessively complicated, fragile, and undersized. Just this past weekend on a scouting trip I got to see first hand many of the weak points of that pack frame... first off, the bags that strap too it are too many and too small... excessive fabric (i.e., excess weight) is used to make too many small compartments and when loaded down heavily one good tug on the straps literally tore the plastic toggles out of the pack frame. Moreover, even the “heavy duty” shoulder straps and waist strap are poorly padded and improperly sized. All major failings if you ask me. It's what my partner has so he's working with it, but I would never recommend that pack to anyone.

The way I see it is this... if a pack is going to be used as a backpack 90% of the time and for game hauling just 10% of the time (or less), it should excel first and foremost as a backpack. I can make any pack into a game hauler given a few lashings of webbing and a couple pillowcases.

Accordingly, after MUCH thought on this issue, I decided that the pack I have used for several years for all my backpacking needs is also the best pack for all my backcountry hunting needs. It's the Mountainsmith Spectre pack, it holds 5,100 cubic inches of stuff (mine is sized for long torsos), it weighs only 4 lb 12 oz., it’s bomb-proof durable, it’s so water resistant it’s near waterproof, its quiet (more like silent), and it is infinitely adjustable and extremely comfortable. I've probably hiked 1,500 miles with mine over the past few years and I have zero complaints... on occasion I’ve had it packed with near 70 pounds of stuff (beer ain’t lightweight) and it was still comfortable. Plus, I got it on sale for $225 so I was happy to start with. Oh, Mountain Smith is a great American company with excellent customer service and a great repair shop, so if anything does ever go wrong or blow out, they’ll fix it.

It's my guess that the "average" hunter is not that well versed in backpacking and is thus easy prey for companies selling super-duper bells-n-whistles backpack supposedly designed for hunters. There are very few choices for hunters and loads of choices for backpackers and I'd suggest to everyone that they look beyond the few manufacturers selling hunting backpacks for true backcountry satisfaction. If you are out there for five days you don’t want a heavy, uncomfortable, complicated backpack that does lots of jobs but none well. Packs certainly don’t need to be camo because 99 times out of a hundred you will drop your pack to make the stalk.

Anyway, you can see I have strong feelings on this issue…

Backcountry

***edited to ad*** I just took a look at the Wolf Packs website shown above and that looks like it might actually be a decent combination of size, features, and price... the pack weight is not listed, but if it's under 5 pounds and the shoulder straps and hip belts are well padded and adjustable for torso length, then we may have a winner... I will definately look for their booth to evaluate their product next year at the ISE.

 

[dreaminhogs]

Backcountry, those are some good points and I would have to agree with your insight to hunters and there knowledge of backpacking(me included). What is your opinion of the packs with a game frame? I noticed the pack you prefered did not have a shelf or one that I could see. How do you pack/haul your game out?

 

[Backcountry]

dreaminhogs,

Well, you raise an interesting point... this is my first year backpack hunting and if successful I'm going to get the animal out via the "make-it-up-as-I-go-along" method. You're familiar with that one I'm sure.

Seriously, no, the pack I have does not have a game shelf.

My plan is to simply bone the beast out and cool the meat, stuff into game bags or equivalent (i.e., pillow cases), stuff all of that right into my pack, and head for the trailhead. Of course I would take the 10-essentials with me too (e.g., water, snacks, map, compass, matches, signal device, jacket, emergency shelter, knife, headlamp). I figure this is as good a way as any, but I tell you I pondered hard over the game shelf issue, and I blame the hunting gear manufacturers for that!

In the end I concluded, “what good does the game shelf do me 10 miles from the truck anyway”? First off, I'm going to be hunting many miles from the trailhead, so hauling out quarters strapped to a frame or game shelf wouldn't work... I need to get the whole animal out as fast as possible and that means boning it out to save weight. Second, it's not like I'm hunting a moose... even a large California muley will only amount to what, about 100 pounds of meat, give-or-take 20 pounds (can I get some help here guys or am I FOS?), plus the skullcap & horns? I can and will haul all that in one fell swoop as my truck will almost always be 100% downhill from where I'm hunting. I’m 100% certain that even a huge boned out muley will fit into my 5,100 c.i. pack with room to spare (but maybe not much).

So, what about the rest of my gear that I need to leave behind? Again, even with a pack frame that has a meat shelf, I’d have to make two trips… It’s one thing to haul 100 pounds downhill for several miles, and it’s another (in my mind) to haul 145+ pounds… I plan to make two trips regardless and save my knees. Finally, this season I’m backcountry hunting with two partners, so worst case scenario is I wimp out and ask for help to get the animal out quickly.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do see a use for stripped frame style packs that have one of those handy meat shelfs. For day hunts where I am hiking from my truck into the woods a few miles and then returning to my truck, then YES (!), I think that style pack is a great idea. On day hikes I won’t have all that extra backpacking gear with me so a small day pack lashed to the pack frame is sufficient. Then, as long as I’m just a few miles from the truck, I’d probably try to just gut the animal and haul the whole thing out at once if it was downhill… or, maybe make two trips or do a quick-n-dirty boning job if the terrain was rolling or uphill to the truck.

Caveat... I may feel different and have horror stories to tell after this season (hey, I was wrong once before, I think) and if so I’ll come clean with the details.

Backcountry

p.s. Dreamin, the pack you have is one I would very much like to get my hands on to test... can you tell me how much it weighs empty?

 

[BOWUNTR]

Well said Backcountry! I will add some info from my experience. I used to be an avid backpacker and then I learned to hunt. Now I have a problem backpacking if I'm not scouting or huntin. I'm an external frame guy and have two different systems.

For short trips, 2 days or less I have a Peak 1 frame (Dwight Schuh frame) with a camo Tarantula pack (no longer made). With this I can pack everything I need plus a boned out deer. I haven't dragged a deer out in years, no matter how close I am. With a partner its no problem getting a deer out. Without a partner and a boned out deer (single trip), the pack is maxed out.

For trips longer than 2 days I use a Cabelas Alaskan 2 backpack. This pack is light, comfortable and adjustable. I was unsure of the quality but I have abused it for about six or seven years and have yet to make a repair. The first thing that I did was cut off all of the extra straps that I didn't need and with the help of an upholstery sewing machine I customized it to fit all of my needs. On backpack hunts I carry a small Delta pack (no longer made but pleanty of similar models being made). This pack is basically a large fanny pack with shoulder straps that weighs about a pound or less. I use this for day hunts from my main camp.

If I am bivy hunting I carry the same pack system, but less weight. I leave most of the base camp stuff at the truck. Just like Backcountry said. You don't stalk deer with 40-60 pounds on your back anyways.

Comfort is #1. On the longer trips I usually pack the deer out and then come back for camp. I have done it a few times (down hill mostly), packing a deer and camp out in one trip. I recommend the Alaskan. I'm sure there are better mountaineering packs. It's give and take and some things are just plain personal preference. Just make sure its comfortable.

And my last system is pack goats. Yes goats that pack! They carry my stuff for me, how great is that. I am in the process of training and packing with my first two goats right now and have two more on order. I might be selling my packs, I'll let you know. Good Luck. Ed F

 

[Backcountry]

Here's a couple darn informative websites with forums dedicated to lightweight backpacking and even backpack hunting... some VERY good information there!

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
(scroll down to the forum titled "backpack hunting"... there are some serious hardcore hunters in that forum!)

http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html
(several forums on lightweight gear, shelters, and food... this one has more tree-hugger types so try to be tasteful if asking for hunting gear suggestions there... me, I avoid arguement altogether by simply lurking)

Backcountry

 

[BOWUNTR]

Let me just say a little bit on the shelf thing. I was unsure about this also. This was my first pack with one. It's mute for packing because it folds up under the pack so my bag and pad strap below the pack. When I pack game out I take the pack off the frame which takes no more than 30 seconds. Then I set the game bags on the shelf and tie it to the frame. I think that the shelf puts the weight heigher on the frame which makes it more comfortable to pack. The shelf also helps secure the load. Without it, it would take a lot more tying to secure and support loose meat on the frame. I'm talking about a frame with or without a shelf because you can always put the meat in the pack (internal or external frame) and accomplish the same thing, minus a bloody mess. Plastic bags work great but blood always gets out and you take a chance of having venison jerkey at the trail head. My 2 cents. I think we should all buy pack goats anyways.
Ed F

 

[dreaminhogs]

Backcountry, The pack empty is advertised at 12.5lbs with the game shelf or 9+lbs without. I would agree with Bowuntr in regards to the ease of taking out game but either way you will be making more than 1 trip. The Cabelas pack is very heavily padded and comfortable, but I can see where the extra weight may deter some.

 

[Backcountry]

As far as my internal frame pack not having a shelf, yep, the meat is going inside (after sufficient cooling to ride out the 2-5 hour hike). Yep, the pack will also get bloodier than Carrie on prom night, but then I'll get too see how easy it is to wash blood out of a pack and make a public spectacle for my loving neighbors... something I've always wanted to do.

When considering the pros and cons of the shelf for packing meat, as BOWUNTR noted, one of my main concerns was how will my pack (or any pack for that matter) distribute a heavy load to my body. For those of you that don't backpack, let me tell you, you want most of the weight to ride on your hips, with the shoulder straps being used more for helping to balance the center-of-gravity of the load over your hips (and thus over your feet). With most packs, this is accomplished two ways... first, via the pack's industrial design and load distribution engineering, and second by how one actually packs the pack. I learned way back in boy scouts that if you pack the heaviest items up high and close to your back, the pack will distribute more weight to your hips and less to your shoulders; however, there's surely a point of diminishing returns regarding packing and with 100+ pounds of meat in your pack, you're going to have some weight on your shoulders regardless. In any case, I've hauled heavy (but not bloody) loads in my pack so I know it will suitably adapt to game hauling (plus, it's what I have).

I'm very curious about these goats... if they can also bartend put me down for a couple!

Backcountry

 

[BOWUNTR]

They may not be able to serve you but I heard that it's possible to have cold ones and a juicy ribeye in the high country! I'm looking into it. Ed F

 

[Backcountry]

Originally posted by dreaminhogs@Jul 16 2004, 04:48 PM
The pack empty is advertised at 12.5lbs with the game shelf or 9+lbs without.

Wow, I couldn't have guessed. I think that pack is probably designed to haul *really* heavy loads... loads I wouldn't want to carry in the first place (hello Backcountry, meet Mr. Goat).

The first thing that comes to mind is that the difference between a 12.5 pound pack and my 4 3/4 pound pack weight-wise is about a gallon of water/Jameson, etc...

On that hardcore "backpack hunting" web forum there are guys that shave ounces off everything and a few who are packing not much more total weight than your empty pack... that's not for me, I like a few comforts (ribeyes & beer seem excessive but I'm willing to experiment

), and those guys admit they are into the "suffer-fest" thing (freezing cold, hungry, etc...), but they get their deer.

Backcountry

 

[BOWUNTR]

To be honest I really dont know how much it weighs but I doubt that it's 12 pounds. It is a heavy duty sucker though, not a mountaineering pack. You know that they fudge a little to get the shipping weight up and by the way I forgot to mention that I work for Cabelas! Ed F

 

[Backcountry]

Originally posted by BOWUNTR@Jul 16 2004, 05:08 PM
I work for Cabelas! Ed F

In California?

Hope you're working on getting a franchise opened up out here!

 

[BOWUNTR]

The Alaskan 2 that I have is listed at 6lbs 10oz on the web site. I'm sure that I shed some weights off of it because the straps are made to fit everyone from Tiny Tim to Big Foot. I feel better now, my back doesn't hurt anymore. Oh Yeah, ignore the word imported, it just means "Quality". It doesn't matter anyways because my goats are going to carry everything for me. Ed F


Alaskan II Advantage Timber Pack with Frame
Two large main compartments with a size of 28-1/2" x 13-1/2" x 7-1/2" stow even the largest pieces of equipment. And with 4,300 cubic inches of capacity, you've got plenty of room for gear and clothing. Two internal supports add shape for easy loading and the zippered divider between the upper and lower compartments keep contents separated. Seven exterior zippered compartments along with numerous lashing loops. Removable, adjustable flap covering with quick-release buckles and zippered pocket. Upper and lower nylon webbing lash patches for securing additional essentials. Imported.
Weight: 6 lbs. 10 oz.
Camo pattern: Advantage Timber®.

 

[MattS]

Thanks All, just stopped by the house for lunch and WOW thanks for the responses! I just looked at the Schuh hunting pack, as it turns out a buddy has one. I really wasn't impressed. I would have to put at least 50 dollars into it to upgrade the straps alone! It just wasn't quite what I was looking for.
CAHUNTR I actually was looking at the Wolf packs as well. In fact I have their flyer in front of me. I like their main pack. I looked at them at the Sacramento Sport Expo and almost bought one on site. I may go with one as it has some nice features and the capacity I am looking for. The 6 lb pack weight isn't too bad, as my Kelty is about 5 1/2 empty.
I like the Badlands but the 2800 cc is not quite enough for 5 days in the back country, and the 4800 is a little too heavy for just the plain pack.
I do agree I need to plan for backpacking formost and hauling game last. I have worked my gear down to 40 lbs for 5 days, and usually am siting at 30 for a 2-3 day trip. This is with stove,hydration system,food,clothes,spotting scope and a few other necessities. Food and water are what get me weighted down. I sure enjoy this type of hunting, so i need to select the proper equipment. Keep the advice coming! Matt

 

[Orso]

Mountainsmith is a great pack. The man who owned/created Mountainsmith is the same guy who owns/created Kifaru. Kifaru packs are very well designed in my opinion, just pricy.

 

[buck_t1]

I have a Dwight Schuh Hunting pack and love it. I like the way it is 3 packs in one. I also got a Handi Pack from Wilderness packs to add to it. The Handi pack is like a sling that ties to the frame just like the bags do and is for a meat bag to cradle it when caried. The Schuh pack can be filled with all my stuff in it for a 6 day hunt and is at 32# loaded and ready to go. I leave the top pack at my camp and hunt with the frame and Handi pack. I have carried out elk on it with know problum. There might be better packs out there but for Bivey hunting like I do it works the best and is at a good price.