BARNES BULLET RECOVERY... A FIRST

[hatchet1]

SEEING HOW ITS A BIT ON THE SLOW SIDE.. I TOOK A FEW PICTURES OF THE FIRST AND ONLY BARNES BULLET 130GR. 270WIN. RECOVERY..
THIS BULLET TRAVELED THRU THE HEAD OF THIS POOR SOUL..LODGED IN THE RIGHT REAR HAM..TRAVELING THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE SWINE..
IT BARELY OPENED UP..IM NOT SUPRISED ONE BIT..IT OBVIOUSLY KILLED THE ANIMAL..BUT YOU CAN GET A GOOD PICTURE OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT IF YOU WERE TO TAKE A HOG THRU THE LUNGS,INSTEAD OF THE MELON OR SPINE.. A WHOLE LOT OF NOTHING WITH A PENCIL HOLEig-laughing:
F BARNES BULLETS..AND THATS MY TAKE ..HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND:toast-yellow:

 

[rimfirerick]

Barnes Letdown

I take it your not satisfied with the Barns Triple ...
I recovered two (2) from my last Oregon mule deer one (1) did not expand at all and the other only the tip opened in a 280 Ackley chronographed at 3300 fps. the shot was approx 100 yards. I recovered the deer after a 2 mile stalk. I realize this wasn't the best shot (Left rear ham and recovered in the right front shoulder) both shots. But the performance was pathetic for a premium bullet.atiotic-wavin-flag

 

[hatchet1]

affirmitve rick on not liking the barnes.. i think it mostly stems from being FORCED TO SHOOT THEM..and also the fact that they have know expansion what so ever..and zipp on thru like a hot blade thru butter..this is the first one ive found ..so i thought id share my own personal experience..there are many dudes that will go to thier grave defending thier performance with this junk..im just not one of them..i might add also that ive seen 1 or 2 animals shot with the copper..and it aint pretty:skeered:
**ive also found that the e-tips are not any better,although they do group better..apples and oranges..been here and done this..just thought id fire it up again:stir pot: due to the lack of money shots lately**atiotic-wavin-flag

 

[Use_Enough_Gun]

Here we go again...

opcornsaving a BIG bucket for this!)

 

[myfriendis410]

I guess I'll have to dig out my samples of Sierra, Nosler, Hornady, and Barnes bullets respectively; recovered from hogs shot over the years. Not ONE of them looks any better (and some worse) than any of the Barnes. As I've said before I've been involved in LOTS of hog shootings with everything and the Barnes have worked as good as or better than anythine else to date. Anything can happen when you apply a large quantum of energy into a small object travelling through an uncertain medium.

Pics to follow.

 

[hatchet1]

actually coues, ive found that its about 50/50 when it comes to copper..
i would have to disagree though on expansion..this bullet looked like the
6.5 carcono they found lying in kennendys gurney when they rolled him in after
his murder....:skeered: anyways, i am a huge advocate of the melon shot
now after the mandate of copper..never was before ....but i dont like to loose.. lets keep this topic real folks and hear your pros and cons..
like stated at the begining of this thread..its been a tadd slow lately..so i thought id fire up an oldy but a goody:toast-yellow:

 

[CaliJeephuntr]

Hachet, I shoot that exact same bullet, 130gr .270 TSX. I haven't had a single problem with that bullet and looking at your picture not sure what you're getting up in arms about over it. It looks like all the TSX bullets i've recovered from my animals. Seems to have performed perfectly if you ask me.

The bullet below is one that went through the neck of a 255lb boar and lodged just forward of his right front shoulder. It expanded as it was supposed to and did it's job of knocking the pig down with no chance of getting back up.

Call me a fanboi of Barnes if you want, but I have been nothing but happy with how the TSX's have performed for me.

 

[Speckmisser]

We've been here before, but since the last time I've seen nothing to make me think differently... the bullets work fine when the shooter does the job right.

I just watched 9 more hogs and a Corsican ram drop clean on Thursday and Friday. Bullets used included the new Remington lead-free, the ETip, and the Barnes TSX. With the exception of one big sow that was shot on the run, everything was one shot kills at ranges from 50 yards to 200, and the longest recovery was the ram that went about 50 yards with a big hole in his heart (those rams are scary tough).

I do agree that the lead-free makes tracking more difficult, especially with a marginal hit, and marginal hits are less effective than they were with rapid expanding bullets.

How's this expansion?


And that's where it comes down to... whether shooting lead, copper, or an arrow, if you put it where it belongs, it will kill cleanly.

 

[myfriendis410]

Obviously I bit.

Attached is a sequence of recovered bullets: unfortunately I could not find my Sierra example, but it was in a lot of pieces anyway.

The first bullet, out of my Sharps, took about ten seconds to expire. The second was out of my Omega, and put him down instantly, as was the third, shot from my .300 wm. All of these were under the skin on the off side. The fourth was a 240 gr. XTP from my Omega that dropped him instantly but with complete separation of core and jacket. The last was shot at a running hog out of my 7mm r.m. and transited the entire body cavity diagonally, before coming to rest under the shoulder blade on the off side. Hog ran fifty yards, lay down and expired. All boars with decent gristle plates. All expanded as advertised. All of these hogs went into the freezer.

I am not trying to take away from your experience with copper ammo, but we have had a rather different result here. Generally, over-penetration with no bullet recovery, a fairly small exit wound yes, but usually ridiculous amounts of destruction between holes (like the lungs, heart etc. turned into goo). Especially if a bone was involved. I chose these bullets 'cause none of them experienced anything larger than (possibly) a rib bone which is almost meaningless to the bullet's path.

As you can see, I usually tend to favor large diameter bullets, with my favorite calber for hogs being either the .300 win mag or the Omega/50 cal. both with Barnes. I don't care for the E-tips 'cause you can't get the same peak velocities that you can with the Barnes. That doesn't mean they don't work fine when placed properly; I just like as much velocity as I can if the diameter is smaller than .40 cal to begin with.

I believe I am turning into an Elmer Keith fan more every day.

 

[richracer1]

I don't care for the E-tips 'cause you can't get the same peak velocities that you can with the Barnes.

That's not necessarily true. Of the calibers I load using the E-tip, my velocities are on par with the velocities listed in the Nosler #6 manual for that given powder and charge. If you aren't getting the velocities you want, try a different powder. Finally, velocity doesn't kill, accuracy does.

Here's my current list E-Tip list:
270 WSM - 130ET - Average velocity 3341 (5 shot)
30-06 - 180ET - Average velocity 2750 (5 shot)
7mmRUM - 150ET - Average velocity 3200 (5 shot)

 

[hatchet1]

ONCE AGAIN FOLKS..JUST LOOKING FOR OPINIONS NOW THAT WE HAVE ALL HAD SOME TIME TO EXPERIMENT.. MY VIEW STILL STANDS {TERRIBLE]..IF IT WORKS FOR YOU ,GREAT.... IF IT DOES'NT LETS HERE IT..NOT SURE WHY IT TOUCHES SO MANY NERVES{FOR AND AGAINST} BUT LETS TAKE THE UPPER ROAD AND SEE WHERE WE END UP... KEEP UM COMING BOYS..ANYBODY NEW TO THE FORUM THAT MAY
HAVE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE RESULTS?? SEEMS LIKE THE SAME OLD FOLK
FIRE OFF THE SAME OLD REPLYS EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP{INCLUDING MYSELF}
LETS HERE FROM THE F.N.G'S..

**410,EXCELLENT DOCUMENTATION!!YOU DEFINETLY HAVE SOME SAMPLES, STRONG WORK!!**

 

[myfriendis410]

Thanks, Hatchet! I take it seriously. I work guns, I live guns, I exercise by hunting, I shoot everything, and I mean everything! It's just interesting stuff. Good topic, I hope others weigh in.

 

[Live2hunt]

Here is the reason I found why we do not see the TSX bullets expand as much as the the lead bullets. I used to shoot Remington Corelokt and have recovered some bullets. Now I shoot the TSX and recovered a few bullets. I was curious why the TSX does not expand like the Corelokt. I took a TSX and a Corelokt bullet (both 130 gr.) out of their shell and compared them. Those of you who reload TSX and Corelokt may already know this. The Corelokt was .25 inches shorter than the TSX. I also tried to snake a 2 lbs. test fishing line into the cavity of the TSX to see how deep the cavity was. It's not very deep. Now my conclusion was that because lead is heavier than copper, the TSX have to be a longer bullet in order for both bullets to be the same weight. And because the TSX is longer, what we physically saw was the mushroom does not peeled back very far but it actually peeled back almost as far as the Corelokt. What I measured was slightly 1/16 of an inch shy only.

Now I believe and assume that if anyone wants to make that TSX mushroom to peel back farther, it can be done by drilling the cavity deeper with a tiny drill bit.



L2H

 

[I'M DK]

Now I believe and assume that if anyone wants to make that TSX mushroom to peel back farther, it can be done by drilling the cavity deeper with a tiny drill bit.

The nose cavity of an X bullet is there to start the bullet expanding.
Resistance from body fluids, muscle, organs, bones & hide continue the process to the base of the expansion portion of the bullet design.
Non-lead bullets will expand no further than their designers build for.
Drilling into the bullet would damage the bullets accuracy potential without providing any possibility of further expansion.

Hatchet,
The bullet you captured did EXACTLY what the factory designed it to.
Non-lead bullets (anybody's) do not perform in the same manner as lead bullets simple as that.
They do kill though, they have killed everything I've shot with them since the mid 90's.
I would rather shoot jacket & lead core most of the time as they kill quicker and with more authority, in my experience.

I'm leaning toward larger diameter, but lighter copper bullets vs. what I favor with jacketed bullets.
As you pointed out the coppers don't provide as large a frontal area as a lead core bullet.
This limits the energy shock wave the bullet transmits to the animal.
I hope to improve the matter by shooting .338 cal copper opposed to 30 cal jacketed bullets.
Next copper penetrates more than necessary and by using a lighter bullet I can increase the velocity over reasonable distances which should increase the energy shock wave without unnecessary bullet weight or recoil while still punching entrance & exit holes.

Of course you could just keep shootin'em in the head.
Looks like it's working for you.:chainsaw:

DK

 

[sancho]

hatch, or any of the other copper guys; did you weigh the slug? any loss in mass? my favorite bullet the nosler partition would drop off pieces in the process. (no actual numbers in my feeble memory). but the critter shut off in the process. those recovered copper slugs look cool. not all bunched up like a standard bullet, but with a left over "shaft" on the backside...cool.

 

[myfriendis410]

hatch, or any of the other copper guys; did you weigh the slug? any loss in mass? my favorite bullet the nosler partition would drop off pieces in the process. (no actual numbers in my feeble memory). but the critter shut off in the process. those recovered copper slugs look cool. not all bunched up like a standard bullet, but with a left over "shaft" on the backside...cool.

In my post showing the recovered bullets:

300 gr. 45-70: 299.5 gr. Barnes
250 gr. TMZ: 249.5 gr. Barnes
200 gr. 30 cal: 199.7 gr. Barnes
240 gr. XTP: 182 gr. Hornady including jacket
160 gr. Accubond: 117 gr. Nosler

Nearly 100% retention every time on the copper. Not so with the lead.....

Due to the lower mass of copper, all non lead bullets will be longer than their equivalent lead/gilding metal complement. As a result, a faster rate of rifling twist may be necessary in some calibers to stabilize bullets in the heavy end of it's caliber range. This is more apparent below 30 caliber than above, IMO. As a result of it's long shank, the expended bullet tends to travel a more straight path than a shorter shank bullet of comparable weight. I see this as an advantage, particularly when you have core/jacket separation in jacketed lead bullets. This is why the Nosler Partition has been so popular over the years.

 

[Mr. Luckypants]

I hunt in a non condor zone so I use both lead and copper. I shoot a 300WM and load that with 130grns ttsx. This load gives about 3500-3600fps and is good medicine for any critters out to 300yds. I would chamber this round while walking/stalking.

I also use heavier lead bullets when over looking long draws/meadows out to 500-600yds. This load gives higher BC and works perfect at longer range. So don't fight over lead or copper but instead use both (if you can) to your advantage.

 

[sancho]

myfriend...410.

awesome information! thanks. i am bringing up my rifles from texas in a few weeks. 2-30.06's, and a .257 wby mag..i will be in condor happy land more often than not. thanks for the info.

 

[wtpops]

Hello all ive never shot bullets at anything but through a lot of arrows. Just want to say this is interesting. One question. With the pics ive seen (and this is comming from someone that has no idea what he is looking at) on this thread i looks like the copper is expanding. Is it that they expand much slower than lead and there for travel a lot farther before doing the damage needed?

 

[barel74]

So, to me, the expansion look pretty close, between the lead and non lead. Why is the exit hole so much smaller than with the lead? Is the copper just traveling that much faster after first impact? Even out to 400yds, exit wound is a pin hole.