BARNES BULLET RECOVERY... A FIRST

[richracer1]

I agree, that this is an interesting topic.
Now, to all of the "nay sayers" that just completely despise and bad mouth any unleaded bullet, I have one question. Is there a bullet made, leaded or unleaded, that everyone will agree upon as being the best big game bullet made? The answer is a definite NO, we all have our opinions. I have nothing against any bullet from any manufacturer, I made a personal choice to use Nosler bullets and they have been good to me. I use Barnes' when Nosler's aren't available or don't shoot well from my gun.

No bullet is perfect and no bullet will perform perfectly in all situations. Pick a good quality bullet that is intended for the game you plan to hunt, suitable to the caliber, and has the accuracy meet to your particular standards.

 

[amadorhunter]

I have used Barnes bullets from the early ninties to present. From the original X-bullets to the new TS, TTS and the MRX's. I find that there performance is great as long as you do your job behind the trigger. I personally hand load and find that if you put sometime in developing loads the proformance you see in accuracy and on game is outstanding. Better than that of what I've seen in factory loaded Barnes!

I have shot small up to large game with them with little problems. From Coyote's to Mule Deer and Blacktail's and Hogs with them. And, again as long as you do your part behind the scope and trigger you wont have and problems with these bullets. I have killed hog's at inside and outside a hundred yards running and stopped and dropped them in there tracks. And, I've seen both Barnes and lead core bullets hit game and had them run off. Some due to poor hits, and some merely doing what I call the death run!

My son got his first deer two years ago. Made a great two hundred plus yard shot on and averaged size blacktail. I could see the shot was a solid heart lung hit. He was shoting a 270 win. loaded with Barnes 130 gr. MRX's. the deer ran about 110 yards after the shot quarting down hill and fell over and died. The bullet make a 270 size enterance hole and came out the oppisite side rib's, making an exit slightly

 

[I'M DK]

So, to me, the expansion look pretty close, between the lead and non lead. Why is the exit hole so much smaller than with the lead?

Just a theory here.
I'm thinking the coppers are doing a bit of cutting on their way through.
Which eases them through the critters. Relatively speaking that is.

I'm looking at the coppers almost like an archery shoot.
If you want or expect the critter dead at the shot,
CNS disruption by spine forward of the shoulder or brain shot is the only sure way to to get it with a non-lead.
If you're able to allow a run & trail up, a heart/lung shot will kill'em.
How quickly the animal dies is up to all the usual things that control death by a gun shot in the vitals.

Cup & core bullets are blasting & plowing.
Most Shed anywhere from 10 to 50% of their core as secondary projectiles.
Almost like a secondary blast from a small shot shell.
A lead core bullet acts to a small extent like a varmint bullet.
The shed particles from the core increases the shock wave and most often results in a CNS overload dropping the animal on the spot.
Bodily functions slow down or stop altogether since the animal is in shock & it dies by the time we walk up on it (usually).

As I've said, either will get the job done, just not in quite the same way.


DK

 

[myfriendis410]

In Africa it is common to use solids of large caliber to drive deeply and poke a hole all the way through for a blood trail. Just a comment.

Think of a rifle bullet as a big club moving unreasonably fast. A bullet bludgeons it's way through tissue causing shock and trauma in and around the wound channel. The experts talk of a secondary or temporary wound channel as well. This is more pronounced the more energy is present in the projectile. Very little at handgun velocities and tremendous amounts at the normal high powered rifle velocity.

There is also "hydrostatic shock" which is basically a hydraulic action applied to the large water bag that is a big game animal. We see this with varmints when they are hit by a high velocity projectile. Obviously, if you can shed all of the kinetic energy in the target and the spent bullet falls out the other side it's done a perfect job.

But what Richracer said is perfectly valid: no bullet is going to perform well in every instance (I'm paraphrasing, sorry Rich).

I really don't see anything in any of the posts to argue with. Individual results may vary. (Should be an ammo disclaimer)

 

[weekender21]

I love copper :stir pot:

I started shooting Barnes TSX when they first came out, several years before the mandated lead free requirement. I read a few books/articles on hog hunting out west and most guides and authors were in agreement that the harder bullets were the best hog medicine.
I've shot hogs with 140GR TSX, 140GR WIN FAIL SAFE, 140 GR ACCUBOND, and 150 GR POWER POINT, all from my .270WSM. And a few with 100gr partitions and 85gr TSX from my wife's .243. While all the pigs were recovered, the Barnes and the Fail safe seemed to perform the best. Even when the bullets exited, I have yet to recover a barnes TSX or Fail safe, they did their job.
In my humble opinion, your recovered Barnes did exactly what it was supposed to do, it traveled 4' of a tough as nails hog and delivered 100% of it's energy.
I prefer arrows but I do love the copper topic! Great post Hatchet.

 

[hatchet1]

thanks guys for all the positive responses with out to much bashing..if there is any bashing it usually comes from me about how terrible the hard pill is..:bag-on-head:
i would have to say that the pros for copper are ahead!!
{im still a con} but if its working for ya awesome..ive just had some bad chit with it{grouping as well as performance on game}
therefore becoming an advocate for head and spine shots with copper...
bottom line is ..we are stuck with it ...and ive found a way for it to work for me..but i'll still bitch about it:far-side-guy-yellin:toast-yellow: but let us not end the thread here!! lets keep it going !! please post up any positive or negative reports you may have for all too see!!

 

[BelchFire]

I've been watching this thread without commenting, because I don't have the condor woes and I really don't want to rub it in. However, here's my two cents:

Way back when.... when Barnes introduced the X-bullet (WAY before the TSX, even before the coated bullets), I was using ballistic tips. They were supposed to be all the shizzle. "They'll slam deer, they'll expand like crazy, they'll clean your kitchen floor and bring you a beer". I HATED 'em. I threw away more meat than I could shake a stick at that was bloodshot and full of bone grit. WAY too much expansion. So I gladly made the switch to the X-bullets (for the record, I was regularly shooting a 180gr X in a .30-06).

I was tickled pink with their performance as far as expansion is concerned. The picture you post is what ALL bullets should look like, post impact. That's a BEAUTIFUL, classic mushroom. Weight retention will be outstanding, but I haven't seen anyone here weigh one. And I'd throw some numbers out to back this up, but I've never recovered one either. And that's a GOOD thing. Provided it retains the mass that it should, it'll plow right on through and leave a nice, big exit wound to bleed.

I'd still be using them, but they lost me on accuracy. Barnes X-bullets have never been known for accuracy and mine were true to the mold in that area. I was shooting 1 1/2-2" groups which was fine for hunting, but just as many of you do, I was always looking for something better.

Maybe I'll give the TSX's another try after seeing that picture. That's what bullet expansion and weight retention should be on a classical scale.

 

[myfriendis410]

Hey Belch: look at the weight values I posted for three different TSX's.

 

[hatchet1]

belch..in my experiences..there is no massive exit wound.. there is no trauma
caused by these bullets..unless you hit um in the noggin..and as far as expansion..
that bullet barely opened up.. i guess the pic does it more justice.. pin hole in ..pin hole out..there is doubt that they are retaining ALL of thier weight..they dont expand..im totally with you on the accuracy part..ive had a hell of a time training
my rifle thats been swallowing lead for the past 28 years to get a taste for copper..
finally found that the 165 tsx out of my 300mag.. group a heck of alot better than
my 130gr out of my .270.. been forced to shoot my 270 more than i usually do for hogs this year due to the scope on the 300 being in austria for repair..for 6 months!!!
damn KAHLES!!.. anyways , if their working.. GET SOME:chainsaw:

 

[BelchFire]

Well, there was another factor I didn't mention. I couldn't afford them much back then and I sure as hell can't afford them now that you guys have first dibbs on them. And they're only getting worse. That wouldn't be so bad if it didn't take a couple of hundred of them to find an accurate load.

I wasn't shooting hogs nearly so much as whitetail with the X-bullets. The expansion was on the order of two diameters and the exit wounds were great with very little meat damage. Deer never ran far and often dropped in their tracks.

I feel for you being in a situation to have to use something you don't like, but I admire you for sticking with it.

 

[257scramjet]

I have shot the Barnes X bullets ever since they came out. I'm a fan of them and have NEVER lost an animal with them. I shoot 25 caliber bullets mostly now and load them up hot. They expand great, heck the last buck i shot at 285 yds i could put my fist through the hole in him. I have only recovered 1 barnes bullet, it was from a cow elk i shot in colorado, 115 gr. Barnes X boattail 257 weatherby mag. It traveled 3/4 the length of her body and she went 40 yds. I will look for the bullet and post a picture. The shot was about 365 yds across a meadow and the bullet still expanded. Barnes says to shoot lighter bullets at faster speeds than std. weight lead bullets. If you normally shoot a 180 gr. 30 cal bullet try a 165 gr. or a 150 and you'll never look back. The saying is true, you can never please everybody, shoot what you like and make certain you put the bullet where it belongs and You will go home with your trophyatiotic-wavin-flag

 

[hatchet1]

belch..im making um work brother..im making um work..and yes..i think the mandated
part fuels my fire abit more to bash um!! i just keep shooting{especially on them hogs&bears} until they are down..them suckers dont bleed like a deer and tracking
um is a bitch with no dog.there is a positive though.. i dont have to worry about meat loss with the copper as it leaves a very small wound channel..:bag-on-head:

 

[bobby7321]

I'd be interested in knowing if those who don't seem to like barnes copper bullets are using factory loads, or handloads?

 

[sancho]

I have shot the Barnes X bullets ever since they came out. I'm a fan of them and have NEVER lost an animal with them. I shoot 25 caliber bullets mostly now and load them up hot. They expand great, heck the last buck i shot at 285 yds i could put my fist through the hole in him. I have only recovered 1 barnes bullet, it was from a cow elk i shot in colorado, 115 gr. Barnes X boattail 257 weatherby mag. It traveled 3/4 the length of her body and she went 40 yds. I will look for the bullet and post a picture. The shot was about 365 yds across a meadow and the bullet still expanded. Barnes says to shoot lighter bullets at faster speeds than std. weight lead bullets. If you normally shoot a 180 gr. 30 cal bullet try a 165 gr. or a 150 and you'll never look back. The saying is true, you can never please everybody, shoot what you like and make certain you put the bullet where it belongs and You will go home with your trophyatiotic-wavin-flag

dude, we need to talk. i shoot a .257wbymag also. i tried loading for it, but never reached factory velocities. i talked to a nosler rep, and he stated that wby has some secret mix that runs the bullets fast. for safety's sake, there isnt a documented recipe for the home bullet chef. therefore,i shot factory ammo loaded with 120gr nosler partitions. i always like the barnes x, because all the articles said, the bullets performed as well as heavier lead bullets. for our .25 calibers, this would be a great thing. i grew up reading about ed weatherby shooting big elk with this caliber, and ended trying to follow in his footsteps.

i want to anchor a pig with my .257, and will need a copper bullet. any factory ammo available? i cannot surf bullet and weapons sites with my work computer.

 

[84toyota]

I have shot the Barnes X bullets ever since they came out. I'm a fan of them and have NEVER lost an animal with them. I shoot 25 caliber bullets mostly now and load them up hot. They expand great, heck the last buck i shot at 285 yds i could put my fist through the hole in him. I have only recovered 1 barnes bullet, it was from a cow elk i shot in colorado, 115 gr. Barnes X boattail 257 weatherby mag. It traveled 3/4 the length of her body and she went 40 yds. I will look for the bullet and post a picture. The shot was about 365 yds across a meadow and the bullet still expanded. Barnes says to shoot lighter bullets at faster speeds than std. weight lead bullets. If you normally shoot a 180 gr. 30 cal bullet try a 165 gr. or a 150 and you'll never look back. The saying is true, you can never please everybody, shoot what you like and make certain you put the bullet where it belongs and You will go home with your trophyatiotic-wavin-flag

I shoot barnes bullets out of my 25-06... I handload them slightly under max loads... They've worked extremely well for me on deer, bear, pigs, coyotes, etc. I'm wondering if they work better in smaller calibers moving very fast versus bigger calibers moving more slowly???

 

[MJB]

I hand load and thats the only way to get copper to shoot perfect dime groups with my 06 and 270.

I'm not a fan of the copper unless I have a head/neck or strait on shot so the bullet will travel 3' or more through the animal. I did recover one bullet last year from my 270, 130gr. TSX mushroomed fine entered through the front chest and stopped just before the ham it was just under the skin. The pig bled all over the place and did not move an inch. Even though the copper performed just like it's suppose to I just like a big exit hole not a pin hole. So far this year I've been hunting with the bow but I have a buddy going this weekend who will be shooting copper, maybe we will get a little love and find the copper.

 

[257scramjet]

dude, we need to talk. i shoot a .257wbymag also. i tried loading for it, but never reached factory velocities. i talked to a nosler rep, and he stated that wby has some secret mix that runs the bullets fast. for safety's sake, there isnt a documented recipe for the home bullet chef. therefore,i shot factory ammo loaded with 120gr nosler partitions. i always like the barnes x, because all the articles said, the bullets performed as well as heavier lead bullets. for our .25 calibers, this would be a great thing. i grew up reading about ed weatherby shooting big elk with this caliber, and ended trying to follow in his footsteps.

i want to anchor a pig with my .257, and will need a copper bullet. any factory ammo available? i cannot surf bullet and weapons sites with my work computer.

Sancho,
you can buy factory weatherby ammo with a 115 gr barnes x bullet or now the tsx bullet. Call weatherby direct and i'm sure you can buy some ammo. It's not cheap! i enjoy handloading but to be honest when i bought mine i purchased 4 boxes of factory weatherby ammo 115 gr. and still use them today. I have handloaded my 6.53 scramjet lazzeroni round (257 caliber) with barnes bullets and have had awesome results with it. It shoots a 100 gr. bullet @ 3900 fps w/ a 31" tube custom T/C Encore rifle. i have shot alot of heavier calibers and have found the weatherby or the Scramjet does just as good if not better with out the recoil!:smiley_yahoo: Any questions i can help you with pm me or let me now..

 

[myfriendis410]

Hey Sancho: try IMR 7828 ssc--it was the original powder developed specifically for the .257 wby mag. Supposedly the best powder for that chambering.

 

[Use_Enough_Gun]

Worked for me

When hunting dangerous game, there may be a time when your LIFE depends on your shooting skills, your rifle's capability to shoot (and feed!) and not in the least...your bullet.

It may sound overly dramatic--until you've faced off with a pissed off cape buff at about 20 paces.

I had a choice and I bet my life on a TSX. BTW--I loaded and shot at least 200 rounds before I went to Africa.

There are many GOOD high performance bullets on the market but I chose to use a Barnes TSX (400 grain) for hunting cape buffalo. A-Frames and partitions shot well in my rifle but the Barnes printed within 1/2" with expanding and solids. PH's have their preferences--usually a combination of softs/solids. In this case I had NO DOUBT that the Barnes would do the job.

In this case I chose well. Took off the top of his heart after going through the chest. He still ran! But not far...

400 grain TSX:

By the way...As a hand loader I've found that "most" copper bullets work best when NOT driven too quickly. If you're in the Roy Weatherby school of "faster is better" then you'll probably see a drop off in the performance of copper bullets. If you buy factory ammo you're stuck.

I'd like to hear from the other hand loaders out there to see if they've had similar experiences. A little slower seems to be more ideal for copper.

I also used Swift A-Frames for plains game. Why? Because they shot the best in my .300 WM. They worked! One of the bullets looks "ugly" but the trophies are on the wall. I actually had some folks say that my bullets "failed". Huh? I think the main question is did you (with whatever bullet) put the game in the salt?

Both bullets below are 200 grain A-Frames:

Might not have dropped at the shot--but that's often due more to PLACEMENT than the round itself. First bullet hit a small branch before it hit the animal. Still worked.

Overall weight retention was slightly better (99%) on the TSX than the A-Frame (92/97% respectively).

My .02 (soon to be worth .01)...

 

[hatchet1]

unbelievable documentation!!! thanks!!!!