BIG GAME TAG DRAWINGS ­ jim matthews column ­ 28may08

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tmoniz @ Jun 5 2008, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

(By the way Suave. That's one heck of a buck in your avatar.)[/b]

THANKS! still waiting to get it back from the taxi... I got it in Utah last year, 200" Gross but got knocked down a bunch for lack of symetry... Will still look great on the wall though,
thanks,

 

[tmoniz]

I think Bpn. And this is just a thought.
Say Max Point holders for Elk, Sheep and Speed Goats. Draws that tag. You're done. It's a lifetime deal.
Plus it takes them out of the loop and clears the way for others who acquire points as they go along?


(Good job on that buck Suave. That would look good on any wall. Whereabouts in Utah. I used to hunt Utah.
I would have asked directly but your email is Private.)

Sorry folks back to the topic at hand.

 

[DaddyOK]

Maybe we need to start thinking out of the box.

How about preference point awarded by rifle caliber....or the hunter's height or weight.

Maybe we could have a shooting-bee [like a spelling-bee, but different]

How about awards by essay: "Why I should hunt G-3" or a poetry contest:

"I think that I shall never see
A zone as purdy as G-3...."

How about an NFL draft style: Everyone who got skunked last year goes first this year... and the guy who made it into B&C goes last.

OK....removing my tongue from my cheek now.

 

[bpnclark]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaddyOK @ Jun 5 2008, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Maybe we need to start thinking out of the box.

How about preference point awarded by rifle caliber....or the hunter's height or weight.

Maybe we could have a shooting-bee [like a spelling-bee, but different]

How about awards by essay: "Why I should hunt G-3" or a poetry contest:

"I think that I shall never see
A zone as purdy as G-3...."

How about an NFL draft style: Everyone who got skunked last year goes first this year... and the guy who made it into B&C goes last.

OK....removing my tongue from my cheek now.[/b]

Ultimate Cage Match! 500 hunters – 1 cage – 1 Grizzly Island Bull tag!

 

[tmoniz]

 

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tmoniz @ Jun 5 2008, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think Bpn. And this is just a thought.
Say Max Point holders for Elk, Sheep and Speed Goats. Draws that tag. You're done. It's a lifetime deal.
Plus it takes them out of the loop and clears the way for others who acquire points as they go along?


(Good job on that buck Suave. That would look good on any wall. Whereabouts in Utah. I used to hunt Utah.
I would have asked directly but your email is Private.)

Sorry folks back to the topic at hand.[/b]

I think that may be a fair deal... to make BULL elk (not cow), Antelope & Sheep all once in a life time... that's "basically" the way it is now anyway... One could conceivably draw 2 or three, heck "conceivably one could draw a bull elk every year but that would never happen, so for all intents & purposes... it's a once in a life time tag anyway. But, too make it "law" would help a little bit, keeping those out who have already gotten their prize out of the draw pool. Couple that with some modification of the draw system and we might be onto something...


Hey T, I didn’t realize I had “private email”? I’ll have to go see how I can change it? I’ll shoot you an answer when I figure it out!

 

[snoopdogg]

DaddyOK, that was funny shiznit!! A poetry contest?? HAHAHAHA

Topic at hand: I spoke in favor of the current system, Modified Preference Points, back when DFG was holding local town hall meetings soliciting input for a system. Everyone was clamoring for one and the common theme's were, "How come we can't be like Oregon, Colorado?" and "I've been applying since 1927 and never drawn a tag and my neighbors drawn 2 times in the last 3 years--and he's not a 'real' hunter." You get the point.

My kids and newbies will always be behind, but you'll never, ever have a system that will please those across the board. I'm resigned to that and I'm okay with the way things are now. Maybe it's just me, but it seems Jim Matthews has an issue with the DFG. Ha!

 

[Rick]

If I recall correctly, points don't matter for the Grizzley Island bull tag. I stopped applying for it for that reason - I have max points that I lose if I get drawn for a tag wherein points don't matter. I put in for a Roosevelt hunt, and will start applying again for Grizzley once I have been drawn somewhere else. Might as well use the points to improve my odds of getting drawn.

I agree that a tule elk bull, antelope buck or sheep ram ought to be a once in a lifetime hunt, but I also think that you should be able to get a Roosevelt, Rocky Mountain and Tule elk bull if you should be so blessed to get drawn for all of them over the course of time. Each type of bull being a once in a lifetime deal, in other words.

 

[tmoniz]

I think you're right Snoop. I think JM does have an issue with the DFG.
It's nice having some of the DFG folks hangin out here to refute quite a few of his statements.
I've said this in the past but I take a lot of his hammering on the DFG with a grain of salt.

That would be interesting with regards to the one and done idea, to distinguish between the three species of Elk in this State. You draw Tule and then go for Rocky Mountain. You draw either of those and you can go for Roosevelt.
Interesting.
Antelope and Sheep would be one and done. Takes the max points folks out of the loop if you really want them to move on. But I wouldn't impose that on the deer drawing.

Here's a funny one. 2 friends of mine put in for x12. They end up drawing D6. The following year they put in together for x12 and then they draw it. The next year they put in for x12. They get D6.
This year they put in for x12 together again. It will interesting to see what they draw this year.

 

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rick @ Jun 6 2008, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If I recall correctly, points don't matter for the Grizzley Island bull tag. I stopped applying for it for that reason - I have max points that I lose if I get drawn for a tag wherein points don't matter. I put in for a Roosevelt hunt, and will start applying again for Grizzley once I have been drawn somewhere else. Might as well use the points to improve my odds of getting drawn.

I agree that a tule elk bull, antelope buck or sheep ram ought to be a once in a lifetime hunt, but I also think that you should be able to get a Roosevelt, Rocky Mountain and Tule elk bull if you should be so blessed to get drawn for all of them over the course of time. Each type of bull being a once in a lifetime deal, in other words.[/b]

I "think" you are correct re: the points for the Grizz island Tule bulls... Not because "points don't matter for them" but just because there is only 1 tag and the system then states that at least 1 tag for every hunt must be availble for the "luck of the draw" applicants... so if a hunt ONLY has 1 tag, then Pref points don't apply, EVERYONE who applies has an equal shot at that 1 tag... At least that's how I understand it? And you're right, even though you don't need points to draw it and points don't increase your odds over someone with no points, you lose your points if you do draw it!

 

[bpnclark]

There are 2 Bull tags for Grizzly Island this year. That means one max and one for everyone else (even leftover max people). It looks like there are a couple places offering 2 bull tags, so it looks good if your max and going for one. I’m putting in for a Tule cow tag because even with max points its still hard to draw a cow tag. Last year it was 840 people going for one GI Bull tag!

I’m hoping to be the first one with a Cow Slam.

 

[DFGELK]

Just to make everyone aware that on several differnt hunts this year that previously had only 1 bull tag per period were combined. Grizzly Island now has one bull period with 2 tags so max points help you out there and a couple other hunts as well.

Joe

 

[barel74]

I agree with the once in a lifetime tags for elk, sheep and antelope. You draw an elk tag, fill it or not, you never get to put in for elk again, and same with sheep and antelope. I don't think you'd hear too many people complain about it either.

 

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (barel74 @ Jun 6 2008, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I agree with the once in a lifetime tags for elk, sheep and antelope. You draw an elk tag, fill it or not, you never get to put in for elk again, and same with sheep and antelope. I don't think you'd hear too many people complain about it either.[/b]

So how do we try to make that happen? Seems like everyone is in agreement with that... write letters, make phone calls? I dunno? It won't do too much to change things but it's a start, right?

 

[bpnclark]

I’m not 100% sure about this but I was reading the book again and I think that Sheep tags already are. There is something saying you can apply if you have a 08 license and have never had a tag before. Nothing like that on the others.

A good way for this to get ahead fast is to tell PETA. Most animal nuts think that everyone shoots elk and sheep everyday and have no idea how the system works. They could pass the bill making a Sheep, Tule Bull and Antelope a once in a lifetime animal faster than any hunter. The animal nuts would be doing us a favor.

 

[Modocer]

It wasn't that long ago that the DFG was drawing 700 tags for the Likley Tables and 5 thousand tags for X3b. We need to stop whinning about how long it takes to draw a tag, and start pushing for better land management and predator control and get the numbers back up.

 

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modocer @ Jun 6 2008, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It wasn't that long ago that the DFG was drawing 700 tags for the Likley Tables and 5 thousand tags for X3b. We need to stop whinning about how long it takes to draw a tag, and start pushing for better land management and predator control and get the numbers back up.[/b]

is it ok with you if we do both? Is it really "whining" or a call to action? potato, "patahto"... you'd think that us hunters would want to stand together and NOT be divisive and cannibalistic... Even if you disagree, isn’t there a more positive way to state it without hurtling insults? Seriously….

 

[Live2hunt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

QUOTE(Live2hunt @ Jun 4 2008, 07:32 PM)
Sounds to me like someone got into the point system late and is now trying to jump up the line.
L2H


WRONG... both myself & bpnclark (the two main posters behind the push for change on this thread) have MAX Points and still don't like the system...[/b]

I have been putting in for X3B every year since I started hunting in 1985 and never got drawn. With the point system, I got drawn for X3B last year with max points. With the ratio number of tags and max point holders who put in for that zone, it's almost a sure thing that I can hunt X3B every 5 years. Besides hunts that only allocated 1 tag and with the current point system, whether you have max point or not you know you've moved up one step closer to getting that tag if you are in for the draw every year. It's like getting in line for that tag and at the same time having some luck to get the tag first or last among all max point holders. If you hopped in line with a bunch of people ahead of you, you just have to wait for your turn.

Have the drawing in a random draw and you will have to have some luck to get drawn for that tag as new hunters apply every year will just decrease your odds of getting drawn. Some people may not get drawn at all regardless of how many points they have. In my opinion I'd want to know that I will get that tag in 40 years rather than hoping to luck out which may never happen in a lifetime.

I understand that most of the premium hunts have very low number of tags which even a max point holder may not event be guaranteed to get drawn in a lifetime, but with current point system, at least the odds of getting drawn will still be greater for max points holders than being in a random draw with people with < max points. For new hunters or hunters who got into the point system after 2002, it's just tough luck for them.



L2H

 

[bpnclark]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Live2hunt @ Jun 6 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

For new hunters or hunters who got into the point system after 2002, it's just tough luck for them.[/b]

Nice

 

[tmoniz]

The last thing I would want is for the fruit and nut crowd to get wind of this.
We don't need them screwing things up BPN.

It probably would give the newbie hunters a fair shot if us max holders got the tag and then were done.

I have no clue as to how we could get the one and done implemented.
That's if we are in agreement and the entire hunting community is in agreement as to implement it.

It would be interesting to see what DFGELK's opinion of this idea actually is. And if the DFG has actually considered such a thing.

If it is implemented there it has to be stipulated that there are no exceptions, excuses, considerations or concessions.
It has to be final. Period.